Who else uses a scythe?

42,
That brings a tear to my eye, as mine broke last week. No fault of the blade, just heavy, thick bunched grass, seriously uneven terrain and a brutish/unlucky swing. Snapped where the tang joins the blade, probably where temper changed. Will weld back. Meanwhile I'm using a very old, pretty thin very flexible 32" blade which works well also, but I miss the weight and the stiffness of the Seymour blade in the tall heavy stuff I've got right now. The Seymour grass blade is more like a light weed blade and doesn't even slow down if it encounters thick grass stems or even moderate sized weed stalks! And it can take a big bite, although I guess that is part of what got me in trouble... Oh well, I don't think broken scythe blades were unheard of back in the day!
 
Remember--keep it sharp, heel down, toe in, toe out. :) Funny you mention the stiffness of the Seymour blade because I find them not as rigid as I prefer a blade to be, mostly due to the low-set bead and rib and the overly straight edge. There's a chance that I might be able to convince Seymour to revise their blade pattern, though I'm not holding my breath.

Some updates coming to "the scythe guide" shortly, by the way.
 
Yeah, not sure what blade the sf factory is copying. I would like to see more of a beard and a more pronounced dropped point. The funny thing is that it excels when the grass is almost too thick/tall to walk through. We cut some grass in October that hadn't been touched for a year, and it was amazing to see the huge windrows pile up next to the swath.

Forgot to mention that swath was finished with the Swedish hybrid blade/Wildwood snath. That is a surprisingly good blade, even on a snath that is about a foot too short for me.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
In spite of my complaints about the current production Seymour blades, here's some proof that they do at least cut! Both the snath and blade are brand spankin' new out of the package and the only modification other than positioning the nibs is the blade has had a fresh edge ground on it and the tang given a 10° angle.

[video=youtube;osNiBdDbod4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=osNiBdDbod4&feature=youtu.be[/video]
Click to expand...

That's impressive!
 
BG_Farmer said:
Yeah, not sure what blade the sf factory is copying. I would like to see more of a beard and a more pronounced dropped point. The funny thing is that it excels when the grass is almost too thick/tall to walk through. We cut some grass in October that hadn't been touched for a year, and it was amazing to see the huge windrows pile up next to the swath.

Forgot to mention that swath was finished with the Swedish hybrid blade/Wildwood snath. That is a surprisingly good blade, even on a snath that is about a foot too short for me.
Click to expand...

I think they need a wider beard, a compound edge rather than true taper, a longer finer toe with a crest, the web done in a half-set (I'd call it a zero set right now) the bead and rib done deeper, the tang thickened at the shoulder, get rid of the hole, bevel the blade on both sides rather than as a single bevel, and heat treat the blade just a little harder. Maybe add a monitor heel just to top it all off. :) The thinness and lightness of the blades is nice, though.

Square_peg said:
That's impressive!
Click to expand...

Thanks, man! I've come a long way over the past couple seasons of study. I've gone back and looked at some of my old footage and it's embarrassing to me now. :D
 
So I made a hollow grinding jig for my wet grinder...I'm now getting a 20"+ deep swath out of a 30" blade. :D

[video=youtube;W4l1NXycXNo]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W4l1NXycXNo&feature=youtu.be[/video]
 
Nope! Not every stroke was that deep but many were. Foreshortening from perspective can play tricks on the eye. Most steps were a good deal more than a boot length and some strokes were deepened by reaching forward. :)

It's worth noting that the hang wasn't modified at all--only the stroke itself.

Edit to add: Rewatch the video and pay close attention to the left foot and you'll see a good number of steps a good deal longer than a boot length.
 
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The length of my boot is 11 & 3/4" from heel to toe, for reference.

10441195_10204051058945212_2810359933853554805_n.jpg


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10513461_10204051067905436_7851629830933664628_n.jpg


10472694_10204051071985538_4693088766000862645_n.jpg
 
[video=youtube;zypSPra29gs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zypSPra29gs&feature=youtu.be[/video]
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
10513461_10204051067905436_7851629830933664628_n.jpg


10472694_10204051071985538_4693088766000862645_n.jpg
Click to expand...
This is great stuff!
The drawing stroke and the falling pattern in these pictures match things that have been described and shown to me by people in the Shenandoah Valley
who had used scythes for farming.

Continuing my log of visits to antique shops, last weekend I saw a grain cradle blade that must have been 4' long. Deeply rusted, but $8.00 asking price.
I also saw my first American pattern blade that had the tang set. It was on a sta-tite snath with a backsaver wedge. The blade was a grass blade, relatively beat up, but appeared to have intentional crowning and when rested as level as it would go on the floor, the back of the tang was about a finger and a half off the floor.

I also saw two grindstones (sandstone?) mounted on steel tube frames. The first was rather eaten up and listed at 100, the other was in great condition,
with foot treadles, seat, a can (for lubricant?) asking 200. I worry about silicosis in using these.

The rarity of the set tangs and what we are seeing with the hollow ground blades makes me wonder: it was suggested to me that if native grasses were cut
the way we do with the blade riding on the ground, they would be killed. They need to be cut no lower than 8 inches. Could it be that the main job of these
scythes could have been one that did not entail riding on the ground? The grain cradles evidently did not ride on the ground.

On other news, I have learned that at least some folks in an African American neighborhood here maintained their yards with scythes
as recently as 40 or 50 years ago.
 
panyo said:
This is great stuff!
The drawing stroke and the falling pattern in these pictures match things that have been described and shown to me by people in the Shenandoah Valley
who had used scythes for farming.

Continuing my log of visits to antique shops, last weekend I saw a grain cradle blade that must have been 4' long. Deeply rusted, but $8.00 asking price.
I also saw my first American pattern blade that had the tang set. It was on a sta-tite snath with a backsaver wedge. The blade was a grass blade, relatively beat up, but appeared to have intentional crowning and when rested as level as it would go on the floor, the back of the tang was about a finger and a half off the floor.

I also saw two grindstones (sandstone?) mounted on steel tube frames. The first was rather eaten up and listed at 100, the other was in great condition,
with foot treadles, seat, a can (for lubricant?) asking 200. I worry about silicosis in using these.

The rarity of the set tangs and what we are seeing with the hollow ground blades makes me wonder: it was suggested to me that if native grasses were cut
the way we do with the blade riding on the ground, they would be killed. They need to be cut no lower than 8 inches. Could it be that the main job of these
scythes could have been one that did not entail riding on the ground? The grain cradles evidently did not ride on the ground.

On other news, I have learned that at least some folks in an African American neighborhood here maintained their yards with scythes
as recently as 40 or 50 years ago.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't worry too much about silicosis from using a wet grinder. Just wear a dust mask and you'll be set. The water on the stone keeps the dust down anyhow, but the dust mask will cover you for anything else. The reason for extreme silicosis in scythe grinders back in the day was because they did it all day, every day, with their faces close to the stone and no dust masks. Any grinding activity requires good breathing protection.

I've never had any of the native grasses here die as a result of mowing. They regrow fastest if cut at a height of 8-12" because a lot of the plants' energy stores are in that region of the stalk, but they spring back just fine when cut fairly close. I think the reason for the rarity of set tangs is because it had to be done by someone with a torch (a fairly recent development) or a metalworker of some kind, so a lot of people just cranked them cold in a vise (which screwed up the lay at the heel relative to the rest of the length, but hey it's better than nothing) or just didn't do it at all since the snath took care of the bulk of the angle anyhow, so even at its worst the lay is only off by about 20° and on a narrow blade the edge will still ride low to the ground. Likewise depending on the mowing conditions you might want a fairly upward lay anyhow to avoid cutting into bumps and rocks.

Indeed, grain cradles seem not to have ridden the ground, but that has more to do with their specific use as a grain harvesting implement. With hay you want as much of the stalk as possible, but with grain crops you only need enough stalk to bind the sheafs for drying and threshing. With short-snathed long-fingered cradles the stalks would be gathered on the cradle and several cuts would be made before stopping to deposit the load and shorter stalks minimizes the weight of the load. This is a little different than cradles with shorter fingers which ride the ground and deposit their load at the end of each stroke. This does mean that while the mowing itself is easier on the body, more time is spent in the gathering and binding.

Very cool to hear about the yard maintenance! I bet many of those folks, or at least their immediate relations, are still around.
 
Does anyone other than Seymour make a good aluminum or other non-wood snath that doesn't come "broken" from the factory?
 
I'm now carrying the current production Seymour No.8 snaths. However, I check to make sure the nibs aren't stupidly cranked on and if they are I loosen them properly. Anything that's "damaged in manufacturing" is sent back.

Also, I only know of one other company that ever made aluminum snaths and they are pretty funky things. However, I don't actually know the name of the company that made them. I've only seen them, and never in an ad or with a label. I own one but need to take pictures.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
...I only know of one other company that ever made aluminum snaths and they are pretty funky things. However, I don't actually know the name of the company that made them. I've only seen them, and never in an ad or with a label...
Click to expand...

Aluminum snaths were also made by H & T Mfg Co, Albion, Indiana
http://books.google.com/books?id=Md4TAQAAMAAJ&q=albion+aluminum+snath&dq=albion+aluminum+snath&hl=en&sa=X&ei=eG6zU9OeOMjvoATNtIGIBg&ved=0CB8Q6AEwAQ


Quoted from a "snippet view" of the book Albion Memories: A History of Albion, Indiana from 1908 to 1976:

Mr. Troyer likes to remark that the sun never sets on the H & T Snath. Publications such as the Alcoa Aluminum Newsletter, the Cleveland Plain Dealer and The New York Times have featured articles about the snath. The True Value Hardware ...
https://www.google.com/search?client=ubuntu&channel=fs&q=troyer+snath&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&gws_rd=ssl#channel=fs&q=troyer+snath+albion&tbm=bks


Quoted from “Remembering One Man’s Work” Part 3 By Ingrid Lochamire:

Local entrepreneur Milo Troyer was one of Dad’s and Brother Bill’s favorite early employers, as well as a popular teacher. Troyer taught civics and chemistry at Albion High School, but he also owned Troyer Snath Factory, where he made snaths. Snaths are handles for scythes, a farm implement used to cut grass and weeds. Dad and several other Albion High School students worked for Troyer after school during the mid-1940s while many of the community’s older men served their country on the battlefront in Europe. Dad’s job was screwing the “nibs” onto the snaths. Nibs are the two stubby handles attached to the snath which could be adjusted according to the user’s needs. Snaths were originally made of iron, but Troyer later made them from aluminum.

“Troyer ordered the bolts for nibs in bulk – they came in a keg — which was good business,” remembers Dad. “It was early ‘piecework’. Troyer knew how many bolts were in the keg and he would pay the workers when they finished a keg. Troyer created an adjustable handle, two on a snath, one for each hand.”

The snath factory was north of the courthouse on Jefferson Street, below the Opera House, but was later moved to South Street. Years later, when Dad was working in the Albion Post Office, he asked Milo Troyer for and received one of his scythes, which he later handed down to his oldest daughter.
http://ingridlochamire.com/2013/11/21/remembering-one-mans-work-part-3/


Quoted from fwdailynews.com (Fort Wayne, Indiana), by Bob Gagen:

H & T Manufacturing Co.’s owner Milo Troyer, also a long-time high school science teacher, was mentioned as manufacturer of a unique form of scythe, the snath, in a converted chicken coop on South Street. It, he claimed, was shipped “into the four corners of the United States advertising our community.”
http://www.fwdailynews.com/archives/editor-reviewed-albion-business-scene/article_5c265d6c-4314-53d7-bd7c-ed1cf5822e99.html
 
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Well that solves that then! I actually have one of the early iron ones, as well, but it's in sorry condition. The way the nib irons were assembled on those units was very unusual. The grips of the nibs were actually made of steel tubing with stacked reducing washers on top and a hex bolt head (not a nut!) on top. The bolt threaded down into a nut that was held captive by the nib band. One somewhat curious note is that in spite of having a steel grip a nib block was still employed. They probably could have gotten away with die-grinding the ends to notch them out as if they had blocks. After all, the grips didn't need to be able to turn at all! The ends of the iron snath are left open but the ends of the aluminum ones are notched and domed over to form a mostly closed rounded end.

I'll have to take a few photos when I get the chance.
 
FortyTwoBlades said:
Well that solves that then! ...
Click to expand...

I'm just helping you with the research for your eventual book. :D
Here's some more information dug up about scythe-making in America ("about five" snath makers in the U.S. in 1947, with 120,000 snaths produced per year), and the history of aluminum snaths:


Aluminum for snaths

Recently we read in one of Alcoa's publications that their favorite material is now about to replace wood in snaths. The snath makers, of which there are about five in the United States, estimate that 1947 will see a production of approximately 120,000 snaths. Here is another example of the newer light metals replacing some of the old-time favorites.

...for the answer to “What is a snath?”, we will report the answer we found in a hurried trip to our much used dictionary. A snath is the long bent handle of scythe. We'll bet that most farmers using scythes don't know that the wooden handles (soon to be aluminum) they wield so competently have such a fancy name...” [emphasis added]

quoted from Materials Engineering, Volume 25, Reinhold Publishing Corporation, 1947, page 68


Later in the same volume (page 52 of a subsequent month) was this follow-up:

Those of you who saw this page in March may recall our reference to the fact that snaths are now being made of aluminum. Rather than let well enough alone, we figuratively opened our mouth and put the usual foot in it. At least one reader who served his time swinging a snath took exception to our statement that many farmers...

The quoted text was pieced together from several "snippet views":
http://books.google.com/books?id=kt4nAAAAMAAJ&q=alcoa+aluminum+snath&dq=alcoa+aluminum+snath&hl=en&sa=X&ei=eSe0U7ycJY6lyATPnoGgBg&ved=0CDYQ6AEwAQ
http://books.google.com/books?ei=Iye0U-a1OYiSyASExIG4Dg&id=kt4nAAAAMAAJ&dq=alcoa+aluminum+snath&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=snath
http://books.google.com/books?ei=Yyq0U8TVL4mryASHhYLoBQ&id=kt4nAAAAMAAJ&dq=alcoa+aluminum+snath&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=farmers+scythe
http://books.google.com/books?ei=pSy0U7i-C9CYyATat4KgAw&id=kt4nAAAAMAAJ&dq=alcoa+aluminum+snath&focus=searchwithinvolume&q=snaths
 
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Lots of contributors to this thread, but as far as my own are concerned, you're very welcome! :)
 
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