Who here likes Khuks and Swords, but not Guns?

Joined
Oct 16, 2000
Messages
118
I have noticed that whenever a thread here hits on the topic of guns...it grows very long, and alot of HI forumites seem to know even more about guns than they do about khuks...I for one, love swords and edged weaponry, but have no interest in guns...am I the only one here that is like this?
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regards
Matt
 
I guess I'm kinda that way too: I tend to think of guns as just tools, but bladed weapons as art. In other words, guns only appeal to me in a technical sense, but blades go beyond and appeal to my aesthetic sense.

Also, another mitigating factor is one that you hinted at: There's just too much political activism tied up with guns these days (from both the pro- and anti- sides), and it's hard to cultivate an appreciation of guns without getting involved in the endlessly unproductive 2nd amendment vs. control debate. With blades, however, most people (that I talk to at least) approach them in terms of history, martial arts, and ritual, which are far more pleasant to discuss.
 
Include me.

Bob

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The Milk Snake: Beautiful, harmless, good-natured, eats venomous snakes for lunch.
 
Protect guns,2nd Ammd. If they get the guns, knives and most other items that can be called "deadly weapons" will surely be the politicians next targets!!!! Join the NRA And the American Knife and Tool Institute,AKTI!!!!! They are the only ones fighting for mine and your freedoms!!!!!

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Chris B.

[This message has been edited by SkagSig40 (edited 06-23-2001).]
 
Ask a UK citizen what happens to knives after the government has finished the slow and subtle process of outlawing guns. As a Citizen of the proud southern State of Alabama, I can carry any edged weapon OF ANY LENGTH openly on my person anywhere in public and in private unless forbidden by the owner (that's where my rights conflict with others' property rights). But then, I still have my guns, too. What about the serfs and subjects of that gloomy queen across the pond? What kind of knives are they "permitted" to carry? As far as I know you can still OWN them; you just bloody well better not ever take them with you anywhere outside your house!

I don't mind saying I think it's pretty short-sighted to love knives but care not a whit about guns. The only reason you're still allowed to play with your pretty knives (or speak freely, assemble with friends, or worship as you see fit) is because 1.3 million Liberty Teeth say you can! You think our politicians are scared of our pocket knives? Or even our khukuris?

In the Republic of Kalifornia they've pretty much gutted everyone's right to Keep and Bear Arms, and lo and behold, they also have the strictest knife laws of any state. Coincidence?

Even our esteemed Uncle, who's surrounded by an army of countless khukuris of every make & size imaginable, will tell you that it's a grizzled old veteran .38 wheelgun that guards his home--not a khukuri! THAT's what the thief who tries to break into his home will have to face first. Personally, I'd sooner take my chances against a khukuri any day.

Ruel, when you say one of the reasons you don't get involved with guns is because of the proponents on both sides of the 2nd amendment debate who turn you off, isn't that a big clue to you about how serious this situation is, and the possibility that we may not be able to buy guns or ammunition any more in the future? Those people are fighting for EVERYONE's rights; not just their own. You don't care about that, as long as you can still buy knives? What are the odds that a government who hates guns will be very favorable toward big knives? To paraphrase, It is not the passionate liberal socialist gun grabbing activist I fear the most; I fear the lukewarm, indifferent individual, for it is through his silent acquiesence that most of the evil in the world is done.

This isn't a personal attack on anyone--what it IS is simply an emotionally charged soapbox. I apologize if my delivery is unnecessarily harsh, but I will never apologize for the content. I wish my fellow Americans, who are the descendents of rebels, insurrectionists and "government outlaws" as I am, would wake up and realize the serious nature of this "political" struggle in which We The People are engaged against the tyrants within our own government who wish to disarm us--the descendents of men who refused to surrender their arms. Then I wish we could find the balls to speak up against it, while we still can. Did our forefathers sacrifice so much to gain so much for us, for this generation to hold such low esteem of our hard-won and costly birthright, that we just through it away--not because we reject it, but because we just don't care? I guess if you didn't have to earn it, it just doesn't have much value, kind of like the rich kid whose daddy gave him everything, who never had to earn any of it through his own hard work.

When we say "Molon Labe," we're not talking about knives.

Soapbox over.

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Molon Labe

[This message has been edited by X-Head (edited 06-25-2001).]
 
:
Well I really do like guns.
It's just that I never had the money for them when I was a young married man that had a family to support.
And I had access to about anything I needed to borrow if I wanted to go hunting.
And my main interest has always been knives and especially what I call exotic and or unusual knives like the khukuri.
And since the khukuri is actually a using knife firt and foremost I feel I can justify having them more than I can something like a Keris that's designed only as a killing tool.

And being the sneaky bastid that I am I always said if I had a knife I could get a gun.
I doubt that holds true anymore, but I do have enough to do what's needed.
And as a friend once quoted in an article he wrote, "Beware the man who owns only one gun. He no doubt knows how to use it."


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Yvsa.

"VEGETARIAN".............
Indin word for lousy hunter.
 
Not me!!

1) Ruel's "aesthetic" comment bothered me a little bit. "In other words, guns only appeal to me in a technical sense, but blades go beyond and appeal to my aesthetic sense."

There are guns out there that can take your breath away. And I'm not talking about heavily engraved or jeweled guns either, I've never cared for that stuff. Just the beauty of the lines and the economy of function can make me feel like I should be wearing white gloves and speaking in hushed tones. For instance, this month's _American Rifleman_ had a story about a guy who thought it would be fun to go on a deer hunt with all his gear being appropriate to 1770-1780. He had a Pennsylvania style flintlock custom made with a maple stock that just begs to be held and aimed. He did however neglet to mention the price. Some of the early Browning pistols do that to me as well, like the 1903. Heck, for that matter the Model 1935 in original form is a darn sexy piece of hardware. A lot of the guns that people are using in Cowboy shooting appeal to me. My Ruger Bisley Vaquero in .45 Colt with ivory style grips and case hardening on the frame. The side by side shotguns with external hammers. And of course, the classic Colt 1873. How can anybody say those guns aren't beautiful in their own right?

2) I agree that mentioning/collecting/buying guns is a potential political minefield. I've had many internet screaming sessions about them, believe me. But I usually feel comfortable talking about guns a little here since it "feels" like we don't have any real rabid anti-gun types. Posting something positive about guns on a list about computers or cameras usually turns into a nightmare.

NRA Life Member
NRA Certified Instructer, Rifle, Shotgun and Pistol
FFL 03 holder

Gregg

P.S. Some of you may read freerepublic.com on occasion. There is a good running thread there now about the upcoming UN event where they are going to kick off an "anti-weapons" event on 09 JUL. The plan is to publically destroy a bunch of guns outside the UN building. The growing backlash is the people declaring 09 JUL "Buy a Gun Day." It will be interesting to see how the NICS holds up during the day and what kind of numbers we ring up. I'll have to buy something that day; probably some old WWII rifle covered in cosmoline!
 
1. Hey, like I said, it's a matter of personal aesthetics, and guns (EXCEPT the heavily engraved and jewelled ones!) just don't do it for me. If I needed to kill someone, of course I'd choose a gun. But since I don't intend to harm anyone, not even animals, I prefer to collect swords & knives.

2. But see? I was right -- mention guns, and you can't help but get some political comments. That really doesn't happen when discussing swords, and is a big part of the reason I prefer talking about swords than guns.

[This message has been edited by ruel (edited 06-24-2001).]
 
Dear Group,
In this country (UK) I believe that you can carry a knife if the blade is on or below 2.5 inches (!). It was three untill a few years back.
This is hopeless needless to say. I still carry knives though (three on my key ring alone), and most of these are well over three inches. If I get caught, I get caught...the law is an ass, as criminals still carry weapons, leaving the average bod defenceless.
On guns, I like guns, but in a different way. Guns appeal to my 'cool, collected, "come on punk, make my day!" feelings'. If I was to confront a gang of more than 3 people a gun is what I'd want, and a big gun too, preferably a machine gun.
Knives and swords appeal to my 'Samurai, spiritual, clean cut
wink.gif
, feelings'.
We in the UK have lost our rights, don't lose yours
frown.gif


Jeff and Kallisti (fresh from her job of garden clearance, without even a sweat mark on her blade).
 
Matt:

The following contains no political jockeying whatsoever, but hopefully an appeal to common sense.

In the natural world, predatory animals, seek out the young, the old, the weak, and the defenseless to prey upon. This very tactic holds true in the society of man as well. The only way to have any defense is to have an explosive offense.

The only advantage cutting tools have over firearms is if the adversary is lesser armed, unaware, or not committed to using a firearm in defense of himself or others. Please don't read into the last statement that I think that "only" having a knife makes you defenseless. Quite the contrary. An edged weapon is a viable back up to whatever firearm you choose to carry. However most forumites would agree that the proper mindset will help you avoid most encounters of this type.

If large knives instill such fear in the hearts of the criminal element, why do we have the crime of home invasion? I mean, when was the last time you were in someones house that didn't have a kitchen knife with at least a 6" blade?

Training is the difference.
An untrained person with a firearm has a better chance of repelling boarders with a gun. The ability to make a "Lucky" shot exists. I believe that most would agree that a certain degree of training is necessary to use a knife effectively. This is why soldiers and special forces operators recieve extensive training in this area.

The use of a knife as sole defense also implies at least two premises:1) That you are physically fit and 2) you won't have two or more advesaries. The firearm is the only current defensive system that puts a weaker person on the same field as a crimial with hostile intent. I don't know of too many 60+ year olds who would want to go hand to hand (or edged weapons) with some 18 year olds who kick in his door at 3 AM. Unfortunately multiple adversaries is pretty much the rule in home invasions..

There is something to be said about Teddy Roosevelt's view on life. Here's a man who had men to guard him night and day, but he kept a cocked and locked 1911 on his nightstand because he thought that everyman is responsible for his own safety.
He said talk softly and carry a big stick. It's good advice.

-Craig
 
I have taken to carrying pepper spray with a blade (or two, or three) as backup. I can get to it quick, it has some range, and it's less likely to have me spending time at the leisure of the state. That's for the street, when presumably I can run, or else disable the BG and use the blade to get past. At home, double-ought buckshot is to be preferred. (Nobody else in the place so I don't have to worry about making a clean shot.) And, needless to say, there's a khukuri or a tomahawk in every corner.

Pistols are just such a PITA to conceal that I can't justify it. I enjoy shooting pistols (though now after 6 years of city dwelling and shooting once every 6 months I'm so rusty I couldn't hit the back side of a barn). I imagine it's what some people who love archery feel. The very clear concentration, steadiness, calmness etc. as you prepare to fire is very cleansing.

I've never really looked at guns as ways to kill people primarily. I was raised around them, have no fear of them whatsoever, have great respect for their lethality, and know if I had one in my hand and someone was trying to kill me I could probably put him in the grave with it. But I know the chance I will have to do something like that is remote, and I wouldn't want to deal with having done it.

The thing I don't get is people who cringe at the sight of a pistol or a (to me) working-sized knife, as if it's waiting to leap up and kill them. Ignorance breeds fear, and we got plenty of that around.


[This message has been edited by DocPat2511 (edited 06-24-2001).]
 
Hey Doc,
that's another thing we'll have to do when and if we ever meet in person.
Yesterday I played with so many vices it isn't funny. I hacked stuff up with a khukuri, put about 50 rounds through a revolver, hung out with a girl for an entire day, and had a glass of wine before bed, oh yeah, and spent about an hour at a tiny carnival after shooting and hacking. You've got to love this country.
smile.gif


BTW, I think I rate guns and bladed weapons about evenly. Generally the stuff I'm interested is the stuff of some sort of historic significance. My only firearm is a Sako Mosin-Nagant M39 made in 1944. The pistol I shot yesterday is my dad's but he let's me take it to the range. I'm not even that into modern "tactical" knives. I'd rather have a good reproduction sword, khukuri, sax, dagger, whatever....

Bob

[This message has been edited by bobwill1 (edited 06-24-2001).]
 
I have only my old antique .38 left and it'll stay with me to the end. In my later years I came to appreciate hand crafted stuff more than factory and getting a hand crafted custom gun is out of budget for me.

I happen to believe personally everybody except criminals should have at least one gun in the home . If you want a 100 and you're not a criminal and can afford them why not?

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Blessings from the computer shack in Reno.

Uncle Bill
Himalayan Imports Website
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Himalayan Imports Archives (33,000 + posts)
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To me, blades are indeed more like art. Guns are more like tools. There are, however, firearms that I value for aesthetic reasons- their clean, single-minded and pure function.

I would have absolutely no problem if *poof*- all guns disappeared from the face of the earth. I have blades and other manual weapons, and God help me, the ferocity (and training, incidentally) to use them, if necessary.

In action, firearms for protection help preserve my humanity. I can protect my family or country without my enemy having to hear my growl as I remove his life with my blunt object or sharp edge, and send his soul through the valley.
 
I have never come across a gun that had Spirit. I certainly appreciate them for what they are, and can get "breathless" over the artistry and mechanical function of something like an old Holland & Holland .600 Nitro Express double rifle, but they will never be an affair of the heart., just a tool pretty much.

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"To Know and to Act are One"
 
I have many more khukuris than guns, but the gun is easier to haul around and far easier to conceal.
 
I have to address one point brought up repeatably here and then I'll let it go. I went to US Army Basic Training in El Paso, TX starting on 07 AUG 85. Long about week four you start learning about the M-16. That's when you get the famous saying from some DS:

"This is my weapon (holds M-16)
This is my gun (grabs crotch)
One is for killing
One is for fun."

They would trot that little doozy out whenever somebody slipped and called an M-16 a "gun." It bothered me now and it still does. I will grant you that the US Army's collection of M-16A1's and A2's are weapons. But if I own the semi-auto version (AR-15) and fire it around my property, that thing is NOT a weapon. As far as I'm concerned, I don't own ANY weapons (guns or knives). It really bothers me how so many people turn a discussion about guns into a discussion about "utility of said gun to shoot people."

Let's put it this way. Let's say every gun in the world, magically and overnight, suddenly would not fire if it was aimed at a human. Some kind of little microdot smart thing (hey, this is an example, it doesn't have to be realistic!). To listen to a lot of you guys, there would no longer be any point in owning guns. On the other hand, I would see myself owning just as many under that scenario as I own now. Maybe even more since the legal climate would be better under those conditions. Yes, I have guns that I could and would deploy in the event of an emergency. But I realize full well that the likelyhood of such an emergency is so close to zero that there isn't much real point in preparing for it. And yet I buy guns. Lots of guns. I love the Russian M44 I just got last month from AIM surplus for $29.95. History just oozes out of it (along with cosmoline!). The blast, recoil and smell of Russian 7.62 X 54R. Sweet!

So I guess you could say I'm precisely the opposite of many of you. I consider guns to have real history. I love to take apart an M-1 Garand and try to understand just exactly why one part has to work just so. Did they make the choice for engineering or production reasons? On the other hand, a knife is a real tool. I own lots of Spydercos and half a dozen HI's. They are interesting. They are useful around the property. But if I was going to give up one "class" of possessions, they would go without even a backward glance compared to my guns!

Gregg
 
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