Who makes the toughest and most useful knife?

RD-9 = tough.
Junglas = tough.
Clax = tough.

All different steels, all different companies, all indestructable under noral use/abuse.:)
 
My 1st post here. Well This is EXACTLY what I would think I would see posted in terms of answers, and BTW mostly pretty good info.

My advice is that you should go to the local Cabelas or some other big sporting goods store that carries a pile of knives and fondle a bunch of them. Test for weight, feel, balance and how they carry for YOU. The Kbar is a reasonable choice but will rust and if inability to care for a knife is a concern then SS should be a blade material you consider heavily. Steer clear of 440 (A,B,C or whatever) It will not hold an edge as well as some of the other materials. The sales man will tell you it is as good but only C and they tell me that it is "as good" if it has been treated to cryogenic tempering. If you can sharpen a blade well then you will be ok with SS. D2 will be harder to sharpen than most other metals.

The bottom line here is that you will likely be ok with most respected makers and the knife you buy is unlikely to be your last and you will find that there is no one knife for all situations. Go find one that fits you and your hand as you are the one who is using it, and be happy with the purchase. Do us all a favor though, no Cheap Chinese Crap.

Happy Hunting
Jeff
 
If you like the Ka-Bar, buy it and use it. See if it works for you. Does it take the abuse you throw at it? Does it work well for your wilderness tasks? If it does then you're set! If you find things you would like to tweak (chopping ability, carving ability, handle comfort, weight, grind, blade thickness, etc.) , come back with your experiences and questions. There are plenty of good people that can guide you once you've figured out what works (and doesn't) for you. There is no perfect knife, but the more you can narrow down what you like through experience, the easier it is to find the perfect knife for you. The best part is that what you want will change over time. That just means more reasons to buy new knives!

Welcome to the beginning of the hunt!
Good Luck,
Alan
 
marcinek said:
I guess the Swedish Air Force would disagree! :D And they do know cold, wet environments.

Also....how do you diffrentiate a "hunting/wilderness/utility knife" from a "survival knife"? I have yet to figure that one out. :confused:
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I'm definitely differentiating that from a survival knife. A hunting/wilderness utility type of knife is basically a bushcraft knife: good for fine woodsworking, skinning game, food prep, batoning and light camp duties etc. It's not a knife built to take abuse. An ESEE/Swamp Rat/Busse/Ferhman class of knives are tough tools that you can pry your way out of a wreckage, pry ammo crates, chop trees, dig holes in rough terrain, kill game, dispatch enemies and still have a fully funcional knife after all that. Try that with a relatively delicate thin stainless steel knife like an F1.

And from what I have read, the Swedish Air Force did not officially adopt the F1 to their pilots, eventhough Fallkniven designed for it this purpose. I'd like to see a source stating otherwise... No matter how good and well made a stainless blade is, it will never match the toughness of a good carbon or tool steel knife built for this type of situation. And yet to use a stainless knife that can take the same beating my Ferhman or my old knives in A-2 and O-1 knives can.
 
Outdoors Fanatic said:
Try that with a relatively delicate thin stainless steel knife like an F1.
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Ha! What qualifies for normal or even thick width if the F1 at 3/16" is thin?:eek:

I personally believe all of the stainless bashing is just people relying on stories of stainless knives from 40 years ago or cheap crap. Busse and kin make knives in 154cm that I would trust to do what I need a "survival knife" to do and that goes for the F1 as well. It's a solid knife. I'm also highly skeptical of your methods or perceived needs for a knife.
 
Outdoors Fanatic said:
No matter how good and well made a stainless blade is, it will never match the toughness of a good carbon or tool steel knife built for this type of situation.
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Do you have any empirical evidence to back this up, or is this just opinion based on personal experience and thirdhand stories? How many stainless knives have you personally had fail while you were using them, and under what conditions?

I'm 47 years old and have been using knives for close to 40 of them, and I've yet to encounter a use for a knife that was beyond the capabilities of even an average stainless blade stock.
 
elkins45 said:
I'm 47 years old and have been using knives for close to 40 of them, and I've yet to encounter a use for a knife that was beyond the capabilities of even an average stainless blade stock.
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I'm only 34, but same experience.
Heck, I used an "inferior" 440 stainless full tang Bowie knife (6" blade) to pry open a steel gun cabinet I lost the key to. I only had one crowbar, so the knife was used as the other crowbar.
Stupid? You bet!
But it didn't break...it bent, and I bent it back to straight. My brother still has that knife now, all these years later.:)
 
Threads like this are quite entertaining. What is the best of anything? For the most part, it's all a matter of opinion. Facts be damned.:D

I was once told by a gentleman in a gun shop that John N. Cooper made the best knives in the world. I asked him if he had ever seen or heard of knives by Loveless, Moran or Randall? He said no, but he KNEW that Cooper made the best knife in the world.:rolleyes: (This was in the early 1970s)

If the OP would like a professional opinion on blade steels, he might take a look at this. It's a lot of reading, but he may learn something if e wants to.

http://zknives.com/knives/articles/knifesteelfaq.shtml

"D2 for instance cracks in negative temperatures" ????? Gee, someone should tell Bob Dozier about this so he will stop using D2. :rolleyes:
 
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marcinek said:
Also....how do you diffrentiate a "hunting/wilderness/utility knife" from a "survival knife"? I have yet to figure that one out. :confused:
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You should know that it is a matter of how 'badass' it is. >7/10 badass points = survival knife, 5-7/10 = camp knife, and <5/10 = bushcrafter... ;):D:foot:;)
 
xDogsoldierx said:
knifetests.com will open your eyes.I have to say though to be fair that D2 is known for being a lil weaker but it holds an edge very well.
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It's nonsense is what it is. No such thing as a stupid proof knife, no matter who makes it or how much it costs.
 
Kepha Gershom said:
Iam looking for an all purpose wilderness/survival knife, strong, cold weather resistant, good water resistant, chipping resistant, and proven; the Ka-Bar seems to have all of these qualities. Do you have any recommendations?
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Have a look at the Kabar Becker BK2. It's got the qualities for which you seem to be looking and assuming you wipe the thing down / use it, rust won't be an issue. Use the crap out of it, pass it to your grandkids and so on. It will set you back around $60 give or take.

Behold!

20101215_ac_06e.jpg


There are others out there that will also work just fine - ESEE has been mentioned as has Falkniven. I like Beckers.


---

Beckerhead #42
 
TURNMASTER said:
My 1st post here. Well This is EXACTLY what I would think I would see posted in terms of answers, and BTW mostly pretty good info.

My advice is that you should go to the local Cabelas or some other big sporting goods store that carries a pile of knives and fondle a bunch of them. Test for weight, feel, balance and how they carry for YOU. The Kbar is a reasonable choice but will rust and if inability to care for a knife is a concern then SS should be a blade material you consider heavily. Steer clear of 440 (A,B,C or whatever) It will not hold an edge as well as some of the other materials. The sales man will tell you it is as good but only C and they tell me that it is "as good" if it has been treated to cryogenic tempering. If you can sharpen a blade well then you will be ok with SS. D2 will be harder to sharpen than most other metals.

The bottom line here is that you will likely be ok with most respected makers and the knife you buy is unlikely to be your last and you will find that there is no one knife for all situations. Go find one that fits you and your hand as you are the one who is using it, and be happy with the purchase. Do us all a favor though, no Cheap Chinese Crap.

Happy Hunting
Jeff
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Welcome to BF. 440c can be excellent if tempered correctly. In my opinion and some experience, it can be as good as 154CM. Benchmade makes a good 440c, and so does Entrek. The new Boker Plus line is made in China, but their 440c seems to be excellent as well. 440c used to be heralded as the super steel in the 80's (please correct me if I'm wrong). There are better performing premium steels now, but 440c is still pretty good. Unfortunately many sub-par manufacturers have put a bad name on 440c over the years.
 
"any other carbon steel knife -- is extremely poor at being water/rust resistant"

I don't know why people say this.Yes you will get SURFACE rust if you don't oil it but its hardly a problem.I just bought a full set of ontario kitchen knives at a yard sale that are pretty old and in good condition.They have a solid coat of surface rust.Plus I already had some in my kitchen that are also 10 years old or more and I never worried about oiling them and they have seen alot of water.They are not pretty shiny blades but they are excelent kitchen knives.Easy to sharpen.Tough.I could take any of these knives and hammer it through a 2 by 4 without it breaking.The problem with the k-bar is the design.It didnt do well on knife tests at all mostly because of the handle.
 
440c used to be heralded as the super steel in the 80's (please correct me if I'm wrong).
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Not really. It was one of the most common steels then, as now. It was considered a premium steel as production stainless knives were more likely to be 440A/420hc/425 modified etc. There was also a lot of "surgical steel" knives then, as now. To be honest there were a few manufacturers of production knives that stated what steels they used but the first I recall seeing charts and steels listed and compared was Spyderco. I remember the first comparison chart of theirs I saw listing G2 ( really Gin 1), ATS 55, ATS 34, etc. By the end of the 80's the "super steel" at that time was ATS 34. Aus 6 and Aus 8 were pretty common premium steels. In the middle 90's we started seeing powder steels like T440V/440V/S60V ( same steel, different names)

I really don't ever recall 440C being called or sold as a "super steel". In fact we never really used the term back then. :)
 
OP, welcome. It seems if you may have read some bad info and should probably start fresh and forget whatever it was. A survival knife is not usually was most picture in their head. Thick and short prybar type knives simply don't do a very good job in the woods, carving wood or cleaning game is not a task well done by a 1/4in thick blade.

A axe and a mora or similar 4-5in blade bushcraft type knife would be your best bet. Check our custom makers section and wilderness section.

Don't worry too much about the steel, a good knife will have a good heat treatment and that often means more than the steel choice.
 
elkins45 said:
I'm 47 years old and have been using knives for close to 40 of them, and I've yet to encounter a use for a knife that was beyond the capabilities of even an average stainless blade stock.
Click to expand...

Im 40 :P
In 6 months of rubber lining sag and ball mills , I lost count of how many stainless knives I broke .
In normal use tho , they are ok , but even then I have yet to snap the tip off a hi carbon steel knife . I have gotten good at reshaping snapped stainless blades tho .
 
xDogsoldierx said:
"any other carbon steel knife -- is extremely poor at being water/rust resistant"

I don't know why people say this.Yes you will get SURFACE rust if you don't oil it but its hardly a problem.I just bought a full set of ontario kitchen knives at a yard sale that are pretty old and in good condition.They have a solid coat of surface rust.Plus I already had some in my kitchen that are also 10 years old or more and I never worried about oiling them and they have seen alot of water.They are not pretty shiny blades but they are excelent kitchen knives.Easy to sharpen.Tough.I could take any of these knives and hammer it through a 2 by 4 without it breaking.The problem with the k-bar is the design.It didnt do well on knife tests at all mostly because of the handle.
Click to expand...

That is why people say that carbon steel is extremely poor at being water/rust resistant. Because they can rust. Hammering it through a 2 by 4 has nothing to do with it.
 
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