Whose the Leader of this mess? T.E.O.T.W.A.W.K.I.

Zombie Zeke

Zombie Zeke

Joined
Nov 26, 2006
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So at a family reunion over the weekend some of the cousins and I got together and decided my place was a great rally point in the case of Apocalypse (we are all avid watchers of "The Colony"). It was one of those conversations that gets deep at the end of the party when beer is involved...anyway I thought about it some and we came up with pushing on into Sequoia National Forest after waiting some time for family and friends to make it up, then caravaning to a place we are all familiar with through camping...(Fresh Water, Fishing, Hunting is all there) so it came time to think about how people's roles would be defined...this is where the conversation turned interesting for me. We all figured that we should be squad based with a leader, then in turn for the entire tribe a chief but when major decisions came through we would hold a council of five. Three leaders of the squads, the Chief and the matriarch...we quickly came to the consesus that this way would keep leadership throughout the tribe and promote a more level-headed way of making the bigger decisions.

My question is have any of you ever given this type of scenario any thought? If so what did you come up with...
 
Always elect the guy you want second least to lead. This is usually the guy whose wife lets him stockpile the most neat toys. Since the leader is usually killed right off the bat, everyone else gets to divvy up all his toys. Why not the least guy first? When push comes to shove and the enemy is closing in, he is the guy who will snap out of his drug/PSD stupor, pulls a ragged green beanie out of his back pocket and becomes Rambo/Norris and lead the charge that saves the day.
 
Codger_64 said:
Always elect the guy you want second least to lead. This is usually the guy whose wife lets him stockpile the most neat toys. Since the leader is usually killed right off the bat, everyone else gets to divvy up all his toys. Why not the least guy first? When push comes to shove and the enemy is closing in, he is the guy who will snap out of his drug/PSD stupor, pulls a ragged green beanie out of his back pocket and becomes Rambo/Norris and lead the charge that saves the day.
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I almost spewed my beverage on the keyboard Codger!:D:D

I've dealt with this leadership thing pretty intimately over the past 20+years. I've found the ones that "want" to be leaders are typically the worst.

On the flip side, making serious decisions, especially under stress or constricted timelines, you really need a final decision maker. Not everybody will like the decision, but they must respect the one making the final vote. Democracy and councils are great for about 90 percent of the mundane decisions, but when it comes to tough decisions, one person is going to have to be respected to make the tough call. I also recommend an "elder" or at least the one with the most experience as that can't be replicated in any kind of crash-course.

Sounds like you all have a plan, but human nature tends to thrive on drama so respect and discipline really is the role of the other "council" members to enforce...that's always tough when you don't like the final decision on a particular issue. Leading by example is much harder to live than most realize; hence the fact that I would be very suspect of the guy jumping up and down and demanding to be the leader of any group. Responsibility of other lives is an enormous challenge that is never easy, sexy or as cool as portrayed in the movies...

ROCK6
 
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In a bad case scenario, leaders tend to present themselves. They are the ones making good decisions first, which others deem worthy to follow. I have to agree, the ones that wants the job, is not the one for the job. I always said that the one person who needs to be president, is the one you have to hold a gun on just to keep in the oval office. When me and my buddies get together, I usually have to be the leader. Reality, I only want to be responsible for myself and my family. I can follow anyones orders/requests, until they prove not beneficial to my goals. At that point, I move on. A tribal paradigm I think would be the best, but you definetely want to stay away from the Dictator/President kinda thing. In that TEOTWAWKI scenario, disputes can get murderous quickly, allow the group to come to the logical solution, either by direct vote or a council. Lots of ceasars, kings, and dictators have come to an abrupt end, when the population decides to change leadership roles, senates and councils prevail through multiple inputs and perspectives. Moose
 
ROCK6 said:
On the flip side, making serious decisions, especially under stress or constricted timelines, you really need a final decision maker.ROCK6
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This really is a key element. In our culture decision making is often process driven. Within the industry that I work I know several "leaders" that lean heavily on process to get things done. In a real crisis situation the bureaucracy that so many cling to is often out the door...and the leaders that rely on it end up taking a back seat to a more dynamic breed.
 
Zombie Zeke said:
That's pretty good. But really, you buyin' that society can't fail?
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Where'd you get that from?
When society falls, I plan to be a Viking.

Vikings sail in dragonships:
From Wikipedia said:
Viking vessels were called “Dragon Ships” because a ceremonial decoration in the shape of a dragon's head was placed on the bow of the ship. The particular design, shape and decoration of the dragon's head also was symbolic of the leader of the group or crew. They symbolized the Viking force and power. The ships were quite fast (7-12 knots speed) and extremely stable in the rough seas off Scandinavia and the North Atlantic.

Vikings were superstitious folk, and the heads on their dragon ships were intended to ward off sea monsters and spirits.
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070302_viking_ship_02.jpg


As for the type of person to be a leader, I'd like someone like my boss at work. He listens to his people, considers their input and makes decisions. He's not afraid to make unpopular decisions and takes care of his people so long as they don't stab him in the back.

Personally, I prefer people working with me than for me.
 
This is in wilderness and survival skills?

haha I thought this was mostly Wilderness survival skills, not wilderness AND survival skills.

carry on :)
 
moosez45 said:
In a bad case scenario, leaders tend to present themselves. They are the ones making good decisions first, which others deem worthy to follow. I have to agree, the ones that wants the job, is not the one for the job. I always said that the one person who needs to be president, is the one you have to hold a gun on just to keep in the oval office. When me and my buddies get together, I usually have to be the leader. Reality, I only want to be responsible for myself and my family. I can follow anyones orders/requests, until they prove not beneficial to my goals. At that point, I move on. A tribal paradigm I think would be the best, but you definetely want to stay away from the Dictator/President kinda thing. In that TEOTWAWKI scenario, disputes can get murderous quickly, allow the group to come to the logical solution, either by direct vote or a council. Lots of ceasars, kings, and dictators have come to an abrupt end, when the population decides to change leadership roles, senates and councils prevail through multiple inputs and perspectives. Moose
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Well stated, I like the point about "until not proving beneficial to my goals" but, how would you weigh a decision you vehemently disagree with against the safety of your own smaller family unit within the group?
 
Cpl Punishment said:
Where'd you get that from?
When society falls, I plan to be a Viking.

Vikings sail in dragonships:

070302_viking_ship_02.jpg


As for the type of person to be a leader, I'd like someone like my boss at work. He listens to his people, considers their input and makes decisions. He's not afraid to make unpopular decisions and takes care of his people so long as they don't stab him in the back.

Personally, I prefer people working with me than for me.
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I had no idea what a Dragonship was...I thought you were talking about being a Dungeon Master or some World of Warcraft thing. lol. No offense meant man.
 
Cpl Punishment said:
...Personally, I prefer people working with me than for me.
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This is key to good leadership. It is a shame that more leaders don't realize this. Leadership isn't a popularity contest, but far too many people attain leadership roles just this way.

And I am glad ROCK6 and others caught my point that the guy who THINKS he should be leader, is not usually the best choice and, in fact, usually the worst choice.
 
Scottman said:
This is in wilderness and survival skills?

haha I thought this was mostly Wilderness survival skills, not wilderness AND survival skills.

carry on :)
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Yeah, I got kind of tired of "another way to make a fire/debris hut/look at my knife" thread ;) so I went for the "Survival" in-theory idea.
 
Codger_64 said:
This is key to good leadership. It is a shame that more leaders don't realize this. Leadership isn't a popularity contest, but far too many people attain leadership roles just this way.

And I am glad ROCK6 and others caught my point that the guy who THINKS he should be leader, is not usually the best choice and, in fact, usually the worst choice.
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I missed that because, I was laughing and counting up ways to pillage the dead imaginary leaders coffers.
 
moosez45 said:
In a bad case scenario, leaders tend to present themselves. They are the ones making good decisions first, which others deem worthy to follow. Moose
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true dat
i observed a minor emergency where the supervisor had no suggestions and a regular guy just suggested what each person should do to alleviate the situation. everyone worked calmly as a team and the situation was solved. one person stated later they followed the suggestions because they made sense.
no one was offended and the supervisor just said good job and made himself scarce.

i told my daughter once that our family never panics but asseses the situation and takes action, i hope she heard me.
 
I figure it's going to go down like Highlander, and there can only be "The One."

Do ya'll normally take mushrooms at your family gatherings? :D
 
different groups have different dynamics. some work well, others... not so well.

we all know the family, or the workplace that's a clusterfuck. hopefully they can serve as a good example of what NOT to do. and this season of The Colony does NOT seem to be a good example.

i've heard of people who had family members bug out to their place for a major hurricane. some brought supplies and other preps, while some families didn't bring enough of anything, showed up and started leaching. wouldn't contribute to work that needed to be done, used water, batteries or other resources wastefully, ate whatever they wanted and just did not care that they only brought half of what they were supposed to being. working thru the after effects of a major hurricane can put people in a situation like that for weeks.

my preps are good, not as good as some, but way better than average. but i don't have family anywhere near me unless they're visiting for the holidays or something. i need to organize the garage and get a charge controller and batteries , then i can get the solar setup installed once i find brackets to mount the panels on the tile roof. but i've got a stack of panels and a huge inverter.
 
Guyon said:
I figure it's going to go down like Highlander, and there can only be "The One."

Do ya'll normally take mushrooms at your family gatherings? :D
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Well, I usually stick with Bourbon but if your offering...;)

Yeah, I don't know why but the weirdest topics come up after the Mariachi's stop playing the bagpipes.



*I'm Irish and the wife is Mexican.
 
Watch the movie Defiance (2008). It's about a group of Jews hiding in the Polish forrest during WWII-they spent the entire war in a tight nit survival community and lived with what they had. The movie is based on personal accounts of those that were involved and it's very clear how defined community roles took shape. I'm not saying it's the perfect or even most efficient way to do it, but it saved hundreds if not thousands of Jews' lives over a period of five years.
 
Since surviving TEOTWAWKI seems to involve whoever has the largest stash of canned goods, I'd vote for the person with the can opener :D




Kind regards
Mick
 
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