Why 154CM and liner locks?

Tritium

Tritium

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I don't have an Emerson but I do have 2 ZT0630's. I like the Emerson wave better than any other wave opener. I would like to get a real Emerson (maybe a Tiger) but I always avoid them because of the steel and lock. I am wondering why they haven't updated their knives over the years. Is it needed or is the lock and steel acceptable? What are your experiences with them?
 
154cm is a decent balanced in all categories steel. still a good steel even today. i dont mind it at all. liner locks are still a very strong lock and if made properly and fails it will fail open and not let the blade close on you. many of the stories you hear are due to the person unlocking it and not realizing it by poor knife handling and also poorly made liner locks with wrong angles and setup.

if you havent read it? its a quick read and its about Micheal Walker and him designing it and testing done, etc.....this article was written by Bernard Levine....so its a legit article with facts ...it dates back to 1997 i think....

 
jbmonkey said:
154cm is a decent balanced in all categories steel. still a good steel even today. i dont mind it at all. liner locks are still a very strong lock and if made properly and fails it will fail open and not let the blade close on you. many of the stories you hear are due to the person unlocking it and not realizing it by poor knife handling and also poorly made liner locks with wrong angles and setup.

if you havent read it? its a quick read and its about Micheal Walker and him designing it and testing done, etc.....this article was written by Bernard Levine....so its a legit article with facts ...it dates back to 1997 i think....

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Thanks jb, I appreciate the info. I assumed an Emerson would be a good knife but I've heard mixed reviews over the years based on materials and lock type. I think we are just spoiled with everything available to us today. I mainly like his wave design and will try one out eventually.

I am surprised more knives dont utilize his wave design since the patent expired a while ago.
 
Tritium said:
Thanks jb, I appreciate the info. I assumed an Emerson would be a good knife but I've heard mixed reviews over the years based on materials and lock type. I think we are just spoiled with everything available to us today. I mainly like his wave design and will try one out eventually.

I am surprised more knives dont utilize his wave design since the patent expired a while ago.
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they are decent knives and strong enough.

pretty sure he has a trademark on the wave, so it doesn't expire.
 
My dad bought me my first real knife back in 2000. It was an Emerson cqc7 tanto. I don’t know any better about knives or steels, but that was a time when I used my knife for just about everything. I distinctly remember two occasions where I was using it in a way that I would probably never now.

First one was we were roofing our old camp garage and I was using it to cut and trim all the shingles. It was in pretty bad shape after that. And the other time, I jammed the tip into a container of meguires was and the point of the tip broke off.

Those are just two things I remember doing that it just took and kept on going. I ended up sharpening the broken tip out a few years later.

I still own the knife, but it now lives in my safe as a keepsake reminder of my dad.

I bought him one about 10 years ago… it was from 2014 I believe. I cleaned it up and gave it to him. He loved it. I have that one also.

I currently carry a mini a-100 as my esc most days. But especially when I know I am doing hard work.

Here’s the thing…… yes there are “better” Steels out there. Yes there are “better” locks out there.

But the steel has always been more than sufficient and got the job done…. And…. Easy to sharpen back to hair shaving.

The lock has always been sufficient and worked. Just last night, I had large winter gloves on and needed to cut something. Out came the mini a-100 and I was able to use it without taking my gloves off.

These knives just work.

In a world of all these ever changing super steels, Emerson stays the same because….. they just work.

I will toss some photos in here later on
 
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jbmonkey said:
154cm is a decent balanced in all categories steel. still a good steel even today. i dont mind it at all. liner locks are still a very strong lock and if made properly and fails it will fail open and not let the blade close on you. many of the stories you hear are due to the person unlocking it and not realizing it by poor knife handling and also poorly made liner locks with wrong angles and setup.

if you havent read it? its a quick read and its about Micheal Walker and him designing it and testing done, etc.....this article was written by Bernard Levine....so its a legit article with facts ...it dates back to 1997 i think....

Click to expand...

Good read with that link. I love history on stuff like this
 
Gizler00 said:
Good read with that link. I love history on stuff like this
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yep. this article kinda crushes the liner lock isnt a strong lock myth thats been pushed by some folks who had bad experiences with one.

the important part is its stronger than a backlock from that testing. also when liner lock is made properly it cannot fold on your hand. it fails open. only way to have it fail closed is to unlock it unintentionally, due to poor handling and via pulling the liner open or of course a poorly made one with improper angles when it was made. frame lock is no different.
 
I got this email after placing my order. Classy!

I want to thank you on behalf of my family and everyone at Emerson Knives for choosing to own an Emerson Knife. Rest assured that we have done everything in our power to provide you with a tool that will serve you for generations to come. This is an American product - 100% made by American hands with American Pride.

When you choose to own an Emerson, you've made the right choice.

Thank you,
Ernest Emerson
 
I'd say if you judge it by the same metrics you judge other knives that you like, there's a good chance that you'll be disappointed. I do really like 154CM as an allrounder steel, but the materials and fit and finish aren't impressive for the price compared to the other options out there. Emerson does things differently, but there's intent behind the design choices and the end result is a dependable tool.

I think there are a few reasons why they want to stick with this steel. For one, the signature chisel grind was intended to make it easier to sharpen in the field with limited tools, and an upgraded supersteel would subvert that goal. Emerson also uses bare titanium on the linerlock, the idea being that it will gall against the blade steel if subjected to a jolt and prevent the lock from slipping and failing. On the flip side, titanium with no insert or heat treat will wear through faster. This is even more of an issue with newer steels that have high levels of carbides, so they might need to stick to 154CM to maintain an acceptable lifespan on the lock. Finally, 154CM has decent edge retention but also has excellent toughness and corrosion resistance, important characteristics for a hard use knife. Bob Loveless arrived at the conclusion that this alloy was the ideal general-purpose blade steel, so I can't fault anyone for using it.
 
I dont own any emersons but i am a supporter of 154cm. People are just spoiled by super steels and forget how good normal steel is.
 
Tsujigiri said:
I'd say if you judge it by the same metrics you judge other knives that you like, there's a good chance that you'll be disappointed. I do really like 154CM as an allrounder steel, but the materials and fit and finish aren't impressive for the price compared to the other options out there. Emerson does things differently, but there's intent behind the design choices and the end result is a dependable tool.

I think there are a few reasons why they want to stick with this steel. For one, the signature chisel grind was intended to make it easier to sharpen in the field with limited tools, and an upgraded supersteel would subvert that goal. Emerson also uses bare titanium on the linerlock, the idea being that it will gall against the blade steel if subjected to a jolt and prevent the lock from slipping and failing. On the flip side, titanium with no insert or heat treat will wear through faster. This is even more of an issue with newer steels that have high levels of carbides, so they might need to stick to 154CM to maintain an acceptable lifespan on the lock. Finally, 154CM has decent edge retention but also has excellent toughness and corrosion resistance, important characteristics for a hard use knife. Bob Loveless arrived at the conclusion that this alloy was the ideal general-purpose blade steel, so I can't fault anyone for using it.
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Thank you for that information, I appreciate it. I really like some of their designs and have a few on order, so I should find out soon.
 
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Tritium said:
I don't have an Emerson but I do have 2 ZT0630's. I like the Emerson wave better than any other wave opener. I would like to get a real Emerson (maybe a Tiger) but I always avoid them because of the steel and lock. I am wondering why they haven't updated their knives over the years. Is it needed or is the lock and steel acceptable? What are your experiences with them?
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Factory manufactured Emerson knives are nice, but if you want a thicker liner lock Emerson knife get a custom. Their built alot beefier than a non custom. Although they are more expensive.
 
Nothing wrong with CM-154. Buck also uses it in its new Range Pro 791, which has become my EDC since I got it last Fall. CM-154, which was originally developed for high temperature bearings in jet engines, is tough, highly stain resistant, easy to sharpen, takes a very fine edge. Emerson makes heavy duty knives that can take a lot of abuse. No problems with the liner lock on my CQC-7BW since I got it a couple or three years ago.
 
I love Emerson's designs, but I like Zero Tolerance's execution more. Nothing wrong with 154CM, but I really like the M390 on my ZT0260.
 
My favorite folding knife model has a linerlock and it has always been every bit as strong as I've needed it to be, and more.
 
What’s wrong with a liner lock? My problem with the internet is that very few people attempt to learn basic tenets of formal logic. You’re implying that a liner lock is an inferior mechanism to other locks simply because of advancing technology or commonality of other locking mechanisms. This is an appeal to novelty. I’d bet some of my liner locks could withstand more than modern more common locks, I.e. crossbar, compression, button, etc. Not an Emerson, but my Spyderco liner locks, especially on my Militaries, are absolute bank-vault-solid.
 
Murdamook.3 said:
What’s wrong with a liner lock? My problem with the internet is that very few people attempt to learn basic tenets of formal logic. You’re implying that a liner lock is an inferior mechanism to other locks simply because of advancing technology or commonality of other locking mechanisms. This is an appeal to novelty. I’d bet some of my liner locks could withstand more than modern more common locks, I.e. crossbar, compression, button, etc. Not an Emerson, but my Spyderco liner locks, especially on my Militaries, are absolute bank-vault-solid.
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Its not all about strength. And yes, liner locks are inferior to some other locks. Its simple logic. Doesn't mean they're bad or useless or that I don't like them. Because you like them doesn't make them the best either. You are implying that all other locks are novelty and no advancements should have been made in locking mechanisms since we already had the liner lock. Should have stopped at 154CM too?

Sorry to upset you with MY opinion. I'm in the process of using a couple Emerson knives and have 2 more on the way. I will post my opinion later. In short, they are awesome knives and I'm keeping some. But logically, they could be better.
 
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Tritium said:
liner locks are inferior to some other locks
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That's a really loaded statement, and highly debatable on account of its vagueness. There are both objective, and subjective aspects to evaluating a lock. There is no other lock that is "inferior" or "superior" to a properly constructed liner lock, only "different", though it may have higher or lower numbers in specified metrics.

Murdamook.3 said:
My problem with the internet is that very few people attempt to learn basic tenets of formal logic.
Click to expand...

Completely unnecessary assertion for this discussion, and not at all logical to include it.
 
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