Why 154CM and liner locks?

David Mary said:
That's a really loaded statement, and highly debatable on account of its vagueness. There are both objective, and subjective aspects to evaluating a lock. There is no other lock that is "inferior" or "superior" to a properly constructed liner lock, only "different", though it may have higher or lower numbers in specified metrics.
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Thanks David, I respect your take on it. A liner lock is vastly inferior to me, compared to other lock types. Evidently inferior to a large segment of knife buyers as well because I don't see them too often in moderately higher priced knives. I've noticed they don't lock up the same every time. Also, they are not as smooth, causing significant lock stick, requiring a break in period. I don't have those problems in other lock types. Also, if oil or liquids (blood, sweat?) Is on the lock face, it can fail a spine whack. I've tried it and it fails very easily. I don't care much about that test because its a non issue for the regular user. However, Emerson knives are made for operators. Is it unreasonable to think that blood, mud, sweat, or even water could get on the lock face during a fight and fail? Also, its not as easy to unlock and your thumb is in the path of the blade when folding. Thats not a problem with other lock types. I operate them fine but better locks exist (in my opinion).

Even though Emerson knives have liner locks, I am very much enjoying them so far. I do hope they break in fully at some point but I will most likely just accept whatever happens.
 
Tritium said:
A liner lock is vastly inferior to me
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So noted, and I can't dispute that. I applaud you for clarifying your previous assertion of liner locks being "inferior", to being "inferior to me", acknowledging the subjective nature of the discussion.

I don't have any of the problems you described with my Spyderco Resilience, nor any Tenacious I have ever owned. Both those knives feature liner locks, and both those knives were carried daily and used frequently. The lock functioned perfectly every times, despite sweat, pocket lint, G10/Micarta/CF/Wood/etc. dust getting in the knife.

Don't know or care about blood and spine whacks, but ages ago I repeatedly spine wacked a dry Resilience, and nothing happened.

Closing a knife is not a task that would be expected to be performed under stress, to the thumb going in the blade path is a non-issue to me, and evidently most users (give the liner lock's enduring presence).

If we were to talk about amount of force required to cause a lock failure (for example), then we enter objective territory. But the overall quality of a lock is not determined by measurable properties alone in isolation from its function in the hands of a user. Many subjective factors like ease of use, ergonomics, ambidextrous capability, etc. contribute to an overall evaluation and since everyone has different preferences, it's impossible to say that one (properly constructed) lock is objectively "better" or "worse" than another.
 
David Mary said:
I don't have any of the problems you described with my Spyderco Resilience, nor any Tenacious I have ever owned. Both those knives feature liner locks, and both those knives were carried daily and used frequently. The lock functioned perfectly every times, despite sweat, pocket lint, G10/Micarta/CF/Wood/etc. dust getting in the knife.
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Your Spydercos have SS liners and maybe that's why they're smoother. If my Emerson knives were smooth maybe I wouldn't want a "better" lock. Even still, I would take an Emerson over those Spydercos any day. And I like Spydercos.

Ironically, your responses is making me less salty over the lock. Thanks for that.

I'm really not looking forward to discussing 154CM.
 
Tritium Tritium , by liner lock, I guess you mean a lock that is integral with the pile side titanium scale? I've always heard it called frame lock, or Reeve Integral Liner lock. I have not tried a Ti lock like this, but I have ready many times that the Ti has a tendency to bind and stick with a steel lock face.
 
David Mary said:
Tritium Tritium , by liner lock, I guess you mean a lock that is integral with the pile side titanium scale? I've always heard it called frame lock, or Reeve Integral Liner lock. I have not tried a Ti lock like this, but I have ready many times that the Ti has a tendency to bind and stick with a steel lock face.
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Emerson liner locks are titanium as far as I know. I'm late to the Emerson party so I'm still learning.
 
Danke42 said:
Let's ask the man what he thinks.

E Ernest Emerson
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I heard him speak on it and the steel. I respect him, like him, and appreciate all he's done. There is no doubt he will defend it, along with the steel. They're great knives and I will end up with 5 or 6 soon. However, I've read a lot of comments going back a couple decades and it appears that a significant amount of knife people would like some updates. I'm not alone here.

I will always be willing to learn but I've used many different locks over the past 40 years and came up with some preferences.

Some may think I'm criticizing Emerson knives. That is not what I'm doing. In fact, I'm supporting the brand with my time and money. Overall its been a positive experience in the short time I've had them.
 
Tritium said:
Its not all about strength. And yes, liner locks are inferior to some other locks. Its simple logic. Doesn't mean they're bad or useless or that I don't like them. Because you like them doesn't make them the best either. You are implying that all other locks are novelty and no advancements should have been made in locking mechanisms since we already had the liner lock. Should have stopped at 154CM too?

Sorry to upset you with MY opinion. I'm in the process of using a couple Emerson knives and have 2 more on the way. I will post my opinion later. In short, they are awesome knives and I'm keeping some. But logically, they could be better.
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You should avoid mentioning “logic” if you don’t understand basic tenets. You made an inference based on straw. An appeal to novelty doesn’t mean the locks in question are novelty; it’s a very specific logical fallacy that’s created when someone makes the assumption that newness implies quality or that being old implies inferiority. You avoiding Emerson because you don’t prefer liner locks is fine; you acting like utilizing a liner lock is somehow a failure to update or advance is the problem.
 
David Mary said:
That's a really loaded statement, and highly debatable on account of its vagueness. There are both objective, and subjective aspects to evaluating a lock. There is no other lock that is "inferior" or "superior" to a properly constructed liner lock, only "different", though it may have higher or lower numbers in specified metrics.



Completely unnecessary assertion for this discussion, and not at all logical to include it.
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It was certainly necessary considering it would have resulted in OP’s original problem just coming down to steel preference. It’s advice more than anything.
 
It was unnecessary because the knife specific point could have made without implying defects in anyone's ability to think things through M Murdamook.3
 
I bent a bechmade liner lock trainer wrestling with it. Where I assume I wouldn't bend a triad. So for knives I might stick in someone. I like triads.

But I like locks like the liner for work where I will use the knife then put it straight back in my pocket. Rather than sit it on a bench open or something. Because they are really fast to open and close.

For me it depends on my priorities.
 
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Emerson just released a Magnamax knife (Gael) and has used Magnacut on a few of the other releases. I'm hoping this trend continues and replaces 154CM on all models. But that's not for me to decide.
 
toker said:
Emerson just released a Magnamax knife (Gael) and has used Magnacut on a few of the other releases. I'm hoping this trend continues and replaces 154CM on all models. But that's not for me to decide.
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I saw that and even though its not my style, it gave me hope that new steels will be used more. Unfortunately it's a waveless model and too small. A Seax with Magnamax would be a must buy for me.
 
Jamesh Bond said:
It's alarming how many lock issues Emerson knives still have. And no. You can't say that it's just haters or blah blah. The reports on here alone of brand new knives with issues are far too many to play that card.

I'll be the only Emerson fan probably in existence to to say it: something is wrong with either the design or implementation here. Lemons happen, but consistency indicates a problem somewhere.

Frankly, if Ernie could drop his pride, admit that, and look into rectifying whatever the problem is, he would have an even bigger following.

Yep. Blasphemy I know.
Whatever.
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This quote is from the sticky at the top "A basic owners guide for Emerson Knives" from about 10 years ago. It appears it's been an issue for a long time. There are defenders of liner locks in this thread but I am specifically referring to liner locks in Emerson knives. If you like liner locks, that's great, but I would like to hear your experience using Emerson knives.

I've been carrying my CQC-8 and I may have worked out the lock stick. After a lot (hundreds?) of opening and closing the knife, it seems to be smooth now. If it stays this way, I will be good with it. Still, its not a great lock type and inferior to other lock types - in my opinion. I do like the knife and it's much smoother now. Unfortunately, I have to do this same process with every Emerson I have. It would be great if anyone has a trick to speed up the process.
 
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