Why a frame lock on the Military M4 and Ti?

mongomondo said:
Why add bacon to a hamburger? Because it makes it more awesome.
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That's a cool reply. The BAM dude on the Food Network, what's his face?? Emirl??? He frequently says, "...It's all about pork fat baby..."

Anyhoo, the Mil's stated purpose is to be a test bed for new materials. Maybe Sal expanded that to include new lock ideas as well. I'm really not a fan of making the Mil heavier. I think the "magic" of the Mil has always been it's minimalistic approach. Lack of add ons. Sal's principle of simplicate and subtract. This titanium, while cool in the Sebenza and Strider vein of thought, just isn't following the Mil's "mission statement" of simplication. Sal needs to get the Mil back on track. Save the titanium scales and frame locks for the Chinooks and the Lil Temps. The Mil is high speed, low drag durnit!

That said, I just scored a KW exclusive and I'm keeping it. What a knife! However, I still want to shift gears and go lighter and simplicater (is that a word??). Back to the drawing board Sal. Get us some scales made outta that stuff Oakley uses in their sunglass frames!! Unobtainium! Yikes!!
 
The size/weight ratio of the regular G-10 Military is the thing I love the most about it, and feel thats what makes it so speacial. No other folder that light will give you that kind of cutting power and great ergonomics.
There are plenty of framelocks out there, but the original Military has no peers IMO.
 
Ken44 said:
The size/weight ratio of the regular G-10 Military is the thing I love the most about it, and feel thats what makes it so speacial. No other folder that light will give you that kind of cutting power and great ergonomics.
There are plenty of framelocks out there, but the original Military has no peers IMO.
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I agree, it's VERY light for it's size. :thumbup:
 
For me, the LL Military makes sense. As does the CL Para Military. I have no desire to own FL Military folders.
My "other" folder is a frame-lock. ;)
 
That's the thing. I carry my Para for basic utility. "If" I have to upgrade, then I clip on my frame-lock.
 
I would be willing to bet my fingers that the compression lock blows away both the RIL/framelock and WLL/linerlock in the Military for pure lock strength. There's a whole lot more to a useful knife than just lock strength, though. :)
 
ZippoThisKnifeThat said:
"The knife is designed as more of a slicer and will handle small tasks that the liner lock will support."


Of course many liner locks can easily rival strengths of frame locks, because the strength of a frame lock is the slimmest part of the cut out. Which in many cases a liner lock shares the same thickness.
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Just because the cutout of a frame lock is the same thickness as a liner lock does not mean it is the same strength as the liner lock. Since the long lock bar is in compression, buckling is going to be one of the main modes of failure. Buckling takes into account the length of the narrow section. Since the cutout is short it is going to be much stronger than the much longer liner lock of the same thickness.

Take a uncooked piece of spaghetti an inch long and press on it with your finger in the long direction and see how bad it hurts your finger and I bet you don't break it. Now take a whole piece and do the same thing and see how easy it breaks. Same size spaghetti, but much different strengths when being compressed.
 
FlaMtnBkr said:
Just because the cutout of a frame lock is the same thickness as a liner lock does not mean it is the same strength as the liner lock. Since the long lock bar is in compression, buckling is going to be one of the main modes of failure. Buckling takes into account the length of the narrow section. Since the cutout is short it is going to be much stronger than the much longer liner lock of the same thickness.

Take a uncooked piece of spaghetti an inch long and press on it with your finger in the long direction and see how bad it hurts your finger and I bet you don't break it. Now take a whole piece and do the same thing and see how easy it breaks. Same size spaghetti, but much different strengths when being compressed.
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I think Spyderco did the tests on their knife breaking machine and found the Liner Lock and Frame Lock to be about the same.
 
Yes, the frame lock is in the same strength class as the liner lock, 'heavy duty', at least 100 lbs per inch of blade length. The locks on both are bent in the open position, so the force is not purely down the centerline.
 
Harry Callahan said:
That's a cool reply. The BAM dude on the Food Network, what's his face?? Emirl??? He frequently says, "...It's all about pork fat baby..."

Anyhoo, the Mil's stated purpose is to be a test bed for new materials. Maybe Sal expanded that to include new lock ideas as well. I'm really not a fan of making the Mil heavier. I think the "magic" of the Mil has always been it's minimalistic approach. Lack of add ons. Sal's principle of simplicate and subtract. This titanium, while cool in the Sebenza and Strider vein of thought, just isn't following the Mil's "mission statement" of simplication. Sal needs to get the Mil back on track. Save the titanium scales and frame locks for the Chinooks and the Lil Temps. The Mil is high speed, low drag durnit!

That said, I just scored a KW exclusive and I'm keeping it. What a knife! However, I still want to shift gears and go lighter and simplicater (is that a word??). Back to the drawing board Sal. Get us some scales made outta that stuff Oakley uses in their sunglass frames!! Unobtainium! Yikes!!
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure carbon fiber scales are just about as light and strong as you will ever find, and G-10 is a very small step behind. The optimal strength/weight ratio was achieved a long time ago, and if there is something lighter than CF I'm sure Sal will find it.

So how do you improve on the perfection of a CF Military? Good question. The Stop Lock will probably be lighter, but development on that seems to have stalled.
In the meantime I don't see the harm in playing with different materials, even if it is just a distraction.
 
"From what I understand, the M4 Military came to be from conversations MCM had with Roger. The knife eventually came to fruition because of those conversations. I'm guessing that it was planned from the beginning to be a Ti framelock with G-10 non locking side."

Roger asked me what I thought folks wanted, I thought this one up and just knew it would fly.
M4 Ti & CF Military, drilled tip up or down.

Only changes were G-10 rather than CF, and std clip.
(Added cost was thought to possibly scare some folks away with the above options)
(And the surprise steel / stop insert.. Huge Bonus!)

15 months later, here we are.

Planning a run in CF & S90v, unless another super / SS shows up.
Maybe next summer?

A very small MCM on the blade would be a nice touch! LOL LOL

For what's its worth, I am very happy with mine.

And yes, a tip up CF S90v Military is hard to beat. Light, large & sharp!.


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There is another nice 4" LE on Roger's site. Looking forward to that one as well. :p
 
I wasn't really sold on the framelock when reading about it either, seemed to be mostly for aesthetic purposes as the linerlock serves perfectly fine. I gotta say, though. Handling it gives a much different, more solid feel than a linerlock, at least to me it does. Even if it's the same strength, it just adds a little more to the knife's feel.

Like a Honda Accord vs a Mercedes. They might both be able to do the same things, but when you shut the door on the mercedes, or go over bumps, and just feel how solid and together it feels, that's part of the allure. (this is coming from a Honda fan, btw :p )
 
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