Why a sub 3 inch fixed blade

[The Mastiff]

When blanking knives there is a certain carbon level at which it stops being possible to blank blades without destroying or wearing out ( expensive) dies. I don't think 440C can be blanked, but 420hc can. It seems like most of Buck's market likes the 420hc steel anyway, and that's what counts. As much as I like the higher alloyed steels at higher hardnesses in a pinch I could easily get by with 420hc. Even that performs better as the lousy "surgical" stainless steels we got in the 70's where 440A was considered an upgrade steel much like S30V today. 440C was mostly in customs and expensive Gerbers and Buck's I couldn't afford back then anyway.

When you produce very large quantities of knives of the same kind nothing beats blanking for speed and cost. Lasers and water jets are more widely available and in use by companies like Buck, Spyderco, and Benchmade and IIRC Kershaw in house. It still adds time and cost to the process and individual knife to the point that even companies with in house Lasers still fine blank when they can ( buck-420hc, Kershaw-13C, now 14C)

I'm sure I left stuff out or got some things wrong but I feel the overall picture is pretty accurate.

There is also the factor that a large part of Buck's market avoid the higher alloyed, harder to sharpen steels and absolutely love the 420hc. I like it myself and absolutely love what Kershaw does with the 13C, and now 14C steel.

 

[ron_m80]

When blanking knives there is a certain carbon level at which it stops being possible to blank blades without destroying or wearing out ( expensive) dies.

I am pretty sure production stuff is still limited to the manufacturers selected cost vs. sales potential decision.

There are no dies to damage with waterjets. Given the safety, performance, and low waste production of the waterjets, I doubt any new manufacturing would want tooled dies, and expensive hydraulic equipment around their floor in comparison.

Older established companies just do what they have always done, and live off of their name.

 

[t1mpani]

Older established companies just do what they have always done, and live off of their name.

Well, yeah. That's kind of the point of making a name. Seeing as how, though, we're talking about Buck, one of the most prolific (read: successful) knife manufacturers in the world who also housed Paul Bos, THE go-to expert on the heat treating of most all of these new steels, , it's entirely possible that they have just as much knowledge---or maybe even more---of how they'd prefer to produce knives than you or I do. I mean, I like waterjets too, and maybe they ARE superior, but damned if I have a knife making business worth tens of millions of dollars.

 

[shecky]

Buck has stuck with 420HC, yes due to its ease of machining, but also because it's a very capable all-arounder type of steel.

But 440 is a higher number than 420, so it must be better.

 

[t1mpani]

Dear God, you're right. I'm going to create some 499 steel and blow Crucible away.

 

[Hadji Flip Me Over]

If you're interested in a small fixed blade, the http://shop.scrapyardknives.com/product.sc?productId=56&categoryId=4 Scrapyard Scrapivore is an excellent deal.

 

[Stelth]

As others have said, you have a great deal more safety and strength with a fixed blade than any folder can ever provide. If you like, I can take a picture of the scars on the back of my left index and middle fingers as a demonstration of why fixed blades are desirable. Don't get me wrong--I still carry folders, but if I'm doing any kind of serious work I pull out a knife that isn't broken in the middle.



Well, not to derail the thread, but a couple of points here. First, Buck WAS using 440C in the sixties and seventies, then moved to 425M and then to 420HC. Now, as my join date and thousands of posts on this knife forum and others can attest, I do have an interest in knives/steels that borders on the unhealthy and am certainly a fan of 440C, S30V, BG-42, ZDP-189 etc. as well as (or even more so) the non-stainless cutlery steels. I've come to realize, though, that there really isn't a "better" when comparing them, there are really just differences in suitability (leaving out the truly terrible stuff like AUS-4 and 420J2). Buck has stuck with 420HC, yes due to its ease of machining, but also because it's a very capable all-arounder type of steel. It doesn't have the abrasion resistance of S30V, but it is far more ductile and tough. In different uses, you'll have different types of edge loss, and things that will cause S30V to chip/fracture will only flex/blunt 420HC (at least when it comes from Buck). It behaves a great deal, honestly, like a simple carbon steel---taking an extremely fine edge easily, holding it well enough for most typical uses and being highly forgiving of lateral forces, all the while refusing to rust except in extreme environments. Two of my favorite slipjoints to carry, in fact, are a Buck 701 with 425M steel, and my Howser Sowbelly in ATS-34 at 61HRC. Three rockwell points and $600 separate those knives, but they get about equal carry time and never have I been using one and wished I had the other.

Now, for a skinning knife or something like that, I'll give S30V the nod in a heartbeat. On the other hand, I have to shake my head at the "combat" knives out there costing hundreds of dollars in S30V. Talk about poorly matching your alloy to your task. Back in the day, Buck brought out their Strider collaboration fixed blades in 420HC and everyone complained about how they should have been made of "better" steel, when the truth is that--if you have to go stainless--420HC was a far better choice than the S30V that Strider was currently using for a heavy duty knife (this is the reason that Strider knives feature steep saber grinds and huge edge angles, as it's the only way they can trick users into believing that ATS-34, BG-42 and S30V are tough). Now, in that case, Buck was charging way too much for laser-cut 420HC knives with slab scales (well over $100 when the far-more-manufacturing-intensive 119 cost $50), but I guess they had to give Strider their percentage.

Anyway, I suppose my point is that I really do like the "high end" steels that come out and enjoy using them, but enough years and use have also taught me the truth of these alloys---there's really only so many ways to skin a cat, and just about any steel will do it well. While they certainly have the facilities, money and expertise to do so, I don't think Buck is interested in competing with Spyderco. There's a whole world of folks out there (and much larger than our world) for whom $40 is the absolute top they'd ever consider spending on a knife, and if they spend it on a very well heat treated Buck, they've spent it well.

Well said!