Why all the de-assisting?

Quiet said:
As someone who enjoys assisted knives, I'll provide the counter point. To each their own, but I'm not sure what multiple folks are talking about when they say "controlled" opening. I am able to control the opening and closing of my knife (and more importantly, the knife itself) without any issues, so I'm not sure what they're talking about. If I need a slower deployment (which I pretty much never do), I simply ride my finger along the back of the knife, then use my thumb to finish locking the blade into place. I don't often use my larger carrier knives, but when I do, I want it open NOW. That's why I enjoy assisted openers, or flippers for that task. If I'm around others, or judge the surroundings to possibly be an issue with my knife deployment and need something cut, that's why I use my smaller SAK Cadet which rides in the other pocket.

Also, I must have stronger hands than most, because there's not a single one of my knives which has a torsion bar that makes the knife hard to close. Sweet! Good for me!

I've never had an assist spring fail, or torsion bar break, or whatever else. I just like how they function, and don't need to make excuses for why I enjoy them. Could I do without 'em, sure could. But I like 'em all the same. OP, if you do also, don't let these folks talk you out of it, since none of their reasons should really apply to you.
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Couldn't have said all of that better. I have knives that I like that are assisted and some that are unassisted. It really boils down to what I am using the knife to do. As a blue collar guy I like my knives to be assisted when out on the job as I can easily open the knife with no effort and minimal motion when I want it. I like not taking my eye off the ball for a second when in a tight space under a house, as pointed out earlier when working in an attic or any other tight space, or when I am wearing gloves, etc. Forty years in the trades, and I just started carrying assisted openers about 6-7 years ago, and now I prefer them for work.

I have never had one pop open in my pocket, I don't open my knives around the dreaded Blade Forums Sheeple that plague the lives of so many here, and I don't have trouble controlling the blade when deployed using the assisted feature. I never have any problems closing my blades and frankly, didn't know this was a problem for some. I don't feel like I am lazy, stupid or like a mall ninja because I find utility in the AO feature. I don't think I am disconnected from the knife and its zen aura because I use the tool the way it was designed. I have never felt "cool" in my life that I can remember, and certainly not from carrying a tool. And thankfully, and this is big, for most knives that are assisted I can find my quiet place in my head and deassist it any any time with no permission needed, no drama, and no judging.

The thing I don't understand about the AO feature discussion is how accusatory and nasty people get that don't like it. I always think to myself... someone must have forced these fine folks to spend their hard earned cash to buy them and is now making them use AO knives against their will.

A simple, innocent question as was the OP's has now turned into a "us against them" thread in the eyes of some. As is the BF tradition, this will probably only get worse until warnings are issued by the mods. I personally see both sides of the issue, and to me it is simply a matter of preference. Not so for many here, apparently.

Unnecessary feature. How hard is it to open a damn knife?

I had a switchblade before there were laws against them. Stupid knife really. I was a kid and I thought it was cool to have one. That's apparently the only draw for assisted openers--the perceived cool factor.

Unfortunately, there are some really nice knives out there with this useless feature. I especially like the Kershaws but I have to grit my teeth and try to tolerate AO. None of them I've owned could be de-assisted without making them virtually useless.
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Highlights by me.

One of the great things about BF and its members is the respect they show for one another and their opinions and preferences. This kind of somes it up... kind of like our political system today... if I don't like it, it is stupid, useless, etc. Thankfully, some folks take the time to post their hard line opinions in a very assertive way that aren't based on anything but their preferences so that we can know what is right and wrong.

Just a quick tip here... if you don't like assisted opening knives, don't buy them! If you find that you ruin the knife or render it "virtually useless" by altering its original function, design and engineering with your tinkering, don't tinker. Better still, see the first tip!

One more quick tip for some of the posters; only buy knives you like that function the way you want them to and you will have a lot less problems in your life that you yourself have created.

Robert
 
Yeah, many reasons.

1.) I don't like always having to flick the knife open.

2.) It's annoying to close one handed with the spring tension.

3.)I don't like the risk of accidental opening in the pocket, especially if it's a liner/frame lock with flipper.

4.)I'm just not so comfortable with having a spring loaded knife in general.

I don't really think the millisecond of extra deployment speed is any real advantage and other than that I find it mainly just a novelty. I also had a CRKT Hissatsu folder that was damn near impossible to open with the spring in, especially with the left hand. I removed the spring and it's still lightning fast to open.
 
The thing I don't understand about the AO feature discussion is how accusatory and nasty people get that don't like it. I always think to myself... someone must have forced these fine folks to spend their hard earned cash to buy them and is now making them use AO knives against their will.
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All very good points in your post. My only contribution is that, as a person who doesn't like the feeling of AO, I've had to pass up on knives I would've really liked if they were manual. That could contribute to the frustration of the people acting that way. Of course, that doesn't excuse people being accusatory and putting others down, but I'm just sharing a frustration I've experienced.

Yes, I don't like the resistance of assisted opening when you close it, but no, I don't think it's particularly difficult. It's just a little nagging thing that bugs you about the knife, which can ruin it for knife fondlers. I do intend on purchasing a BM Volli and de-assisting it, because swinging an axis lock open and closed is a wonderful thing.
 
Sorry for the double post, but for some reason the computer I have access to won't let me edit...

Also, I don't think any of the people who strongly dislike assist find themselves in the situation where they're on their back in a tight space (not making generalizations about anyone's character). I never need to do things like that, and hadn't even thought of that situation. Before you guys brought that to my attention, I couldn't think of a practical reason for AO either.
 
I consider assisted knives to be a spinoff of automatic knives, and there's certainly a place in this world for automatic knives. I generally prefer manual openers, but I don't grimace or scream or kick the dog when I have to deploy an assisted knife. If I buy an assisted knife, I generally leave it assisted because that's the way the manufacturer designed it. I don't put springs in manual knives to turn them into assisteds and I don't take springs out of assisted knives to turn them into manuals. YMMV.
 
Lee48 said:
Unnecessary feature. How hard is it to open a damn knife?
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Very, sometimes. Especially lockbacks. You can not argue against it being safer to hold a knife further back when opening, rather than putting your hand halfway across the pivot and ending up with the blade facing you
The benchmade 580 is a very good knife despite the crappy feeling hollow handles
As for closing a sping knife, i wonder, are your knives double edged?
If not, you must be real weak to not be able to just close it with your leg or a table
 
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Murphenstein44 said:
Also, I don't think any of the people who strongly dislike assist find themselves in the situation where they're on their back in a tight space (not making generalizations about anyone's character). I never need to do things like that, and hadn't even thought of that situation. Before you guys brought that to my attention, I couldn't think of a practical reason for AO either.
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That's just the start. I have arthritis in my hands, and when it is really cold my hands hurt. Not just a little, either. Unfortunately in my line of if my job is outside I am, too. It is a lovely thing to be able to pull out a knife from my pocket and simply push the back of the blade and the knife opens. I can leave my gloves on... the metal doesn't hurt my fingers...

Equally lovely on a rainy day where I don't have to work with a slick blade trying to find a nail nick. Pop the knife open, use it, close it.

I like being able to adjust something with one hand and hold it in place and to be able to open my knife without using both hands. Think of being in an attic and you see a piece of insulation blocking the vent line, or you need to open up a vent, cut moisture barrier or anything else that you might do while holding on for your balance with one hand. Hold onto the rafter, open your knife, cut, then release the lock and put it back in your pocket. All with one hand, and you didn't fall off the ceiling joist.

And how very nice it is for me to be able to apply butyl tube sealants that can only be cleaned off with solvents knowing I have a one handed opener in my pocket. As long as I can keep those nasty sealants localized to one hand, I can trim material, open more cartridges, wipe off excess sealant with a clean rag using a clean hand, and on a on. When had to use two hands, I had to clean my hands every time I changed operations that required me using a knife.

Apply the need for one handed operation that is required from time to time when working off the top of a tall ladder or scaffolding and you can see how handy one handed opening is for a workman. I know you can work "flippers" to do one handed opening very well as 40 years ago we were doing that with our Buck 110s. This worked OK, but eventually we wore the knives to the point they wouldn't stay closed on the pocket. And just a little gunk, a dry joint that made locking just a tiny bit unsure, or just flat not wanting to wrist flick your knife open when 20 feet in the air was too easy to remedy with an AO. That nice "click" when it locks means you are in business. And with a liner lock, any accumulated gunk on the locking surfaces is pushed out of the way every time it locks up, so no worries there.

I am thinking from the responses to this thread that many feel they have to line up on one side or the other of the AO issue (silly me, I never knew it was an issue for anyone!). Thankfully for me, I don't have to make a choice. Depending on what I am doing for the day I can carry the knife I want, matching the tool to the tasks at hand using my own judgement as to which knife is best for that day.

I used my AO knife many times today, working on a roof repair way up on top of a warehouse. I thought about this thread; strangely, I never once felt like I was being cool (no one around to impress as it was 100+ today), never felt stupid, never felt like a mall ninja, didn't feel weak or lazy, and didn't think the AO was a useless feature even one time.

Robert
 
I can only speak for myself, but I like both styles. Personally, I don't think the AO has anything to do with speed. I like it for convenience. I can open most manual knives one handed with no problem, especially flippers, but none of them with as little effort or concentration as an AO knife (also especially true for flippers).

If I have a material that needs to be cut in my left hand, I can grab the knife with my right and simply nudge the stud/flipper of an AO to get to work. A manual knife requires more concentration that I usually have focused on the job at hand. I am still perfectly capable of using a manual in this scenario, I simply choose not to most of the time. I see AO knives as almost as simple to use as a fixed blade. Grab knife, nudge it, cut something. No major movements involved until you close it.
 
I abhor assisted knives. I'm not a fan of de-assisting them either. I would love to own a ZT0770, but the assist kills it for me. Only assisted knife I own is an orange BM mini-barrage D2. Thank God Spyderco doesn't do assisted knives.
 
I just passed on an assisted BM for a non-assisted one------I prefer to open and close my knives one handed-----fighting a spring to close just isn't for me.
 
Robert, thank you for your posts brother. Great contributions. :thumbup:
 
Quiet said:
Robert, thank you for your posts brother. Great contributions. :thumbup:
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Also regarding complaints of torsion bars wearing out/causing problems etc, that you mentioned some other posters said, I know Kershaw for one guarantees their bars for minimum of 10,000 openings and will replace it when it wears out...

Something happened to my Benchmade Barrage once when I was closing it, not sure what, but the bar gave out for some reason. I sent it in and they made it like new quick.

I know we can't always rely on companies to always be in business or always have parts for all knives forever but, still... Heck, even if they can no longer replace the bar, the knife still works.

On a somewhat separate note: I like two-handed openers BUT, with my disability, an assisted knife makes knife life much, much easier for me. Quick one handed opening while my other hand stays with my cane. So I can open the knife even standing up or walking around if necessary, which is something that is very difficult with a two-hander unless I'm sitting down. (for some reason I'm still drawn to some of them though.)

I realize that for some, an assisted knife may be seem as the next cool gimmick, and I totally get that. But for others like me, or Robert with his arthritis, it provides a great alternative in knife life.

Quiet I just responded to you as you mentioned above what other posters had said about torsion bar failure/difficultly in closing, etc.
 
I for one prefer non-assisted, mostly for the fact that they draw less attention. If the need comes out to open the knife in a more conspicuous setting, I have the option of opening in a very controlled non-threatening manner. Also for most flippers and all my spydies if needed I can flick out as fast as most AO knives. I prefer to have the option. Also, I work in an job with a loosely enforced blade length restriction which I do not always follow. It will be much easier to look past a slightly longer blade if it is used in a discreet fashion. If I did ever have to show my blade to the security officer I would rather it not flick out in his hand...much harder to explain away as a letter opener.

Just my two cents...I do see the benefit for some folks and I even broke out my cryo the other afternoon and kinda enjoyed the burst of the AO but just not really for me, especially on higher end knives or dress carry.
 
RedLynx said:
Also regarding complaints of torsion bars wearing out/causing problems etc, that you mentioned some other posters said, I know Kershaw for one guarantees their bars for minimum of 10,000 openings and will replace it when it wears out...

Something happened to my Benchmade Barrage once when I was closing it, not sure what, but the bar gave out for some reason. I sent it in and they made it like new quick.

I know we can't always rely on companies to always be in business or always have parts for all knives forever but, still... Heck, even if they can no longer replace the bar, the knife still works.

On a somewhat separate note: I like two-handed openers BUT, with my disability, an assisted knife makes knife life much, much easier for me. Quick one handed opening while my other hand stays with my cane. So I can open the knife even standing up or walking around if necessary, which is something that is very difficult with a two-hander unless I'm sitting down. (for some reason I'm still drawn to some of them though.)

I realize that for some, an assisted knife may be seem as the next cool gimmick, and I totally get that. But for others like me, or Robert with his arthritis, it provides a great alternative in knife life.

Quiet I just responded to you as you mentioned above what other posters had said about torsion bar failure/difficultly in closing, etc.
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Your post pretty much mirrors my thoughts on the matter. I won't stand here and tell someone who's stated a position that AO knives are crap because torsion bars break (and when called on that, share a personal experience with exactly that happening) that they're wrong, that torsion bars don't break. I will just say that I've owned a lot of AO knives, some of 'em for years, with a significant number of opens to that bar's credit, and I've never had a failure or issue. Therefore, if breakage were common, you'd think we'd hear more about it. That we don't, tells me that the torsion bars supplied in knives today are just fine.
 
Ok, seriously what is with the board lately? Constant double-posting?
 
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omaha-beenglockin said:
I just passed on an assisted BM for a non-assisted one------I prefer to open and close my knives one handed-----fighting a spring to close just isn't for me.
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Just curious, but what knife requires two hands to close because it is assisted? I am by no means a superman, and my kershaws have never given me a problem closing on hand. I really can't help but feels people saying this are over exaggerating how tight the spring is...
 
This might ruffle a few feathers but here goes. There are so many knives to buy today if you don’t like something don’t buy it. Don’t try and make a taco into a hotdog. It seam some people just want a knife to cut a few things in a day. Maybe a box or a piece of rope or what ever. And want it to open easily. I don’t think there is anything wrong with that. And some don’t really care what the steel is. If you don’t like something fine. I don’t like liver but I don’t rant about it on cooking forums. I am a chef that went to Le Cordon Bleu. I just cook and eat things I like. But back to this post. There are hundreds if not thousands of great knives in all prices made all over the world. That have all kinds of ways to open them. If you don’t like it cool. But don’t make someone else feel like they made a mistake for buying it or owning it. They have there reasons. Automatic knives are assisted but lots of people love them. And don’t make a big deal out of owning them some even think they are cool.
I own both kinds and a whole lot more than that. They are a tool to do a job. Or they are something people collect. But if your hobby is making hotdogs out of tacos cool. Just don’t make me think my BM Axis Lock is better than my ZT 0770.
 
I like my ZT 0566 de-assisted to control open and close of blade, and avoid any accidents.
 
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