Why are diamond pastes so much more expensive than diamond powder?

N

now

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Dec 27, 2017
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If my math/understanding isn’t incorrect, diamond pastes are vastly more expensive than the diamond powder that they contain. I realize that it takes money and time to develop a decent paste and that producing that paste takes money and time as well, but I feel that the discrepancy between the two is larger than those costs would explain.

Let’s assume that 5 grams of a high concentration of 20 percent unbranded mono-crystalline diamond paste costs $20. That paste thus contains 0.2⨉5g=1g=5ct of diamond powder. The going eBay rate for unbranded diamond powder 100ct=20g is around the same $20. That means that the diamond paste costs 100/5=20 times as much as the diamond powder. Sure, unbranded diamond powder on eBay is probably not the best quality diamond you can find and it does seem to be a lot harder to find branded diamond powder than branded diamond paste (which is no surprise, I suppose), but even so, 20 times more expensive seems excessive.

So, where’s the mistake in my reasoning?
 
Profit! Don't forget the container cost, it's probably close to the cost of the diamond. Sure what you are getting off ebay at that price is probably on the low end of quality, but when you are buying a couple of kilos of diamond powder a year the good stuff costs a little less. Unbranded diamond on ebay at that price is probably coming from mainland China, where it's around 4 cents a carat plus shipping in kilo quantities.
 
I'm sure profit is the biggest part of it, but product quality is right up there to. I picked up a 1 micron tube off amazon and it seems ok in the tube and on my fingers, but try and spread that stuff on a strop and...fagetaboutit!! hard to spread and it will sit on surface only. After 24 hr cure time, the first time I use it, it's nothing but a flaky layer on the surface, so it starts flaking off almost immediately. Bogus..
I also have a .5 micron and 2 micron tube of Venev Industrial that I got from Gritomatic. it goes on smooth and soaks into the leather like it should. Very happy.
And the price is like a dollar more but the tube is twice the size too so... Paste goes along way. I will have these tubes for quite some time.
Part of my point there is,the base material they use in the paste makes a big difference! I wont go bargain shopping for paste.
 
One factor is manufacturing processes that differ from powder to paste. With the powder, they just have to make the powder. With paste, they have to mix the powder in the paste.

I used to work in the industrial construction trades as a millwright (essentially a mix of industrial construction and industrial maintenance) and currently work industrial maintenance in a foundry. Just running raw soy beans through a drag conveyor will completely eat through AR 500 plate. Now try mixing a sticky paste with diamond powder and not totally destroy the equipment related to that process.
 
Diamond powder is a raw material. Raw material prices will be cheaper than finished products that use the powder in their applications. Therefore the paste/slurry will be more costly due to the process of making it. It’s not as simple as mixing it with water.
 
I don't think it has to be that complicated. Mix diamond powder with a carrier that works, put in retail container, done.
 
If you want I have a guy in the Ukraine I deal with for my diamond paste and it's a high quality paste.

Email me at wadenorton2008@yahoo.ca and I can send you his contact information and a chart showing the different grit's that he has.

His 10 Carat stuff I think runs about 23 bucks for 40 grams witch is a really good deal,you an get 3 different concentration's from him as well.

I don't know if you know this or not but if you get a diamond paste that's really coarse you then carat weight goes up for the same concentration ratio.
He also charge's less for the finer Micron grit's that we want for sharpening knives because the same amount of diamond goes farther.


now said:
If my math/understanding isn’t incorrect, diamond pastes are vastly more expensive than the diamond powder that they contain. I realize that it takes money and time to develop a decent paste and that producing that paste takes money and time as well, but I feel that the discrepancy between the two is larger than those costs would explain.

Let’s assume that 5 grams of a high concentration of 20 percent unbranded mono-crystalline diamond paste costs $20. That paste thus contains 0.2⨉5g=1g=5ct of diamond powder. The going eBay rate for unbranded diamond powder 100ct=20g is around the same $20. That means that the diamond paste costs 100/5=20 times as much as the diamond powder. Sure, unbranded diamond powder on eBay is probably not the best quality diamond you can find and it does seem to be a lot harder to find branded diamond powder than branded diamond paste (which is no surprise, I suppose), but even so, 20 times more expensive seems excessive.

So, where’s the mistake in my reasoning?
Click to expand...
 
Diemaker said:
I don't think it has to be that complicated. Mix diamond powder with a carrier that works, put in retail container, done.
Click to expand...

Not trying to be snarky or a smarta**, but I am guessing you have never worked in an industrial setting?
 
Melvang said:
Not trying to be snarky or a smarta**, but I am guessing you have never worked in an industrial setting?
Click to expand...
Maybe not, but these products arent something thats being mixed in huge vats or 500 gallons+ at a time. This is a product that is probably more like a gallon at a time as that would be enough to fill hundreds of viles of a product that doesnt "fly off the shelves". This is a low volume, non industrial product.
 
Melvang said:
Not trying to be snarky or a smarta**, but I am guessing you have never worked in an industrial setting?
Click to expand...
All aspects of plastic injection molding with a focus on the tool room and lots of production cnc machining. On top of that, I currently make resin bond diamond stones so I am a little familiar with mixing diamond powder in a carrier. Making my own diamond compound is something I have been playing with for the last year or two. I got a new carrier to try a few days ago and tried it out last night. I think I may have what I was looking for.

To better answer the op's question. The container is around 50 cents with no artwork so add some for this, say $1 for the diamond, 10 cents for the carrier, which is probably high, and 1-1/2 minutes labor if you do several hundred tins per batch per grit size. Keep in mind you bought 1,000 grams of each grit of diamond to get a decent price. Say you have a manufactured product that sells for $7 with a minimal profit for the manufacturer. Now you have to mark it up for the retailer so say $10.50, oh need room for a distributor, well now it is $16 retail and the manufacturer makes $3. :( :poop: My thoughts being the manufacturer so say $4 for the manufacturer. That would bring the retail price up to $18 or so if everyone is ok with such a low markup. That is how you get $20 tins of diamond stropping compound. If the manufacturer does the distribution and some direct sales, amazing what this does to the profit margin, then the price may be closer to the $10.50 mark.
 
Good answer, D Diemaker . I realize that there are quite a few factors to consider. I suppose I should have asked why the manufacturers don’t do larger containers than 5g, in general. There’s obviously a bit of a start-up cost to creating these compounds and distributing that unto larger containers (at a higher cost, of course) would make it a bit more palatable to the buyer (at least for me, though I’ve bought quite a lot recently so it hasn’t stopped me). I guess I’m mainly worried that those 5g will run out faster than I would have wanted, given their price. (I should also note that I do polishing of blades with my pastes, not only for sharpening.)

But I think that what was wrong with my initial assumption was that you’re paying for the diamond when you buy diamond compound. The actual diamond is only a small part of the total.

Thank you all for your input. I think it’s been quite a nice conversation.
 
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