Why are GECs so hard to open?

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filedog

filedog

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Ok, I have searched, and read quite a bit here, and I don't see this question being asked. If it's been thoroughly discussed, forgive me.
I'm not an expert on traditionals, but I am a tool user, I appreciate good design and workmanship. I've built a small collection of slipjoints,
carry and use one every day. I'm not a collector, if something's not used, I move it along.

Been looking at GECs for a while now, they look great, you know the story. I spent time talking to a few dealers, expressed my concerns,
found one who was very friendly and helpful, who said he would have a look at the knife before he sent it. We did discuss the pull "weight"
in general terms, but never specifically the knife I would get. So I ordered a #78 American Jack. Got it, love the pattern,beautiful wood, nice build quality,
made in the USA - great! The main blade was so hard to open I would literally wonder if my nail was going to fold at the end. It was slightly painful
as the blade would "jump" to the half stop. I looked at it for a while, and decided to send it back.

My understanding from the dealer is that this is typical for the brand. The blades pivoted smoothly, no evidence of a tight pivot pin.
It was suggested to me to "break in" the knife, but in my limited experience, not much change is likely to happen, and I didn't want to get stuck with a
tool I would never use. I call Great Eastern and spoke to them, was told I could send it in, which I appreciate, but was not willing to risk.
Somewhere around here I read the slogan "a knife you grandfather would love" or something to that effect. I can't help wondering how many of
our grandfathers would try to open one of these knives and shake their head at the thought of the stiff pull.

I get the idea of not wanting it to close unexpectedly, but if I'm worried about that, I'll use a lockblade, or better yet a fixed blade knife.
I just don't see the point of such a stiff pull, and I'm disappointed frankly, that I didn't get to enjoy the 78. Now, I am sure there are others
with a more reasonable pull, but from what I have found on the subject, there's plenty of hard to open GECs out there. My question is why?
Some brand forums cough*BR*cough don't allow the tiniest bit of criticism, which I think is sad frankly. This could almost be the GEC forum ;)
but there seems to be an open friendly attitude about discussing the limitations of traditional knives as well as their virtues. Most of you seem
to simply accept this, or don't like it, but accept it anyway. I'm wondering why.

Please, enlighten me!
 
I honestly think you just got a real tight one. I have about 5 Gec's and they are all in the middle of stiff and too light. In other words, perfect! They have amazing customer service and will take care of it for you! There is a reason for the amount of praise on this forum! You'll soon find out why! Don't give up on them, they'll make it right!!
 
I like a little stiffness to the spring, but not what you describe.

IMO, you should have sent it to GEC. I have had a couple of knives that had minor flaws (for a $100 knife). GEC has always been very good about making things right.

As far as GEC in general, my understanding is that the earlier knives had stiffer pulls. The new ones are a little easier in general. Your knife sounded like it was a little tighter than usual. Should have sent it to GEC to correct.
 
Filedog, I would love to enlighten you, but even as a lifelong user of traditional pocketknives, I never did understand this phenomenon either. And I grew up with these knives. Considering that in many places in the world people, real working people who are wrenching out a living like shepherds and farm workers, and carpenters, even use friction folders, I don't understand the heavy spring. I've seen my share of very old knives that were real workers, that had fairly easy pull back springs. My own grandfather emigrated from Ireland, and was a fishing trawler crewman in the cod industry. He had a large seaman's knife with a blade almost 5 inches, but it wasn't hard to open. As a child, I could pull the blade out with not much trouble. If a trawler fisherman working the Flemish Cap in the North Atlantic didn't need a bear trap back spring, who does?

Even when I was kid, we didn't like these kind of knives, and in fact our old scout master, a guy named Mr. Van warned us not to get a knife we had to fight with to open. If a knife is hard to open under normal perfect conditions, what happens when your hands are almost numb with cold, or wet, or even both? We used to hand pick our pocket knives by making a pest out of ourselves at the store. The poor clerk would have to bring out almost the whole stick on that model while we tried each one. And there were variances in production, even way back then.

I've always had a very strong preference for an easy opening knife. The very dynamics of cutting will keep a non locking blade open. I've used a Opinel with the locking ring removed to make it a real friction folder like they all were before 1955, and I had no trouble with using it. In fact, I liked it. Very easy on arthritic fingers with no back spring to snap it closed. Even my 4 year old granddaughter can deal with it while slicing her chicken nuggets in half under very close supervision.

Tell ya what, when you find out, let me in on it.:thumb up:

Carl.
 
Interesting thread - have really enjoyed reading about this. The level of pull to open a knife is graded?

I have an older Case Barlow like this that I don't carry for this reason. Like as not, I often chip my thumbnail opening the thing.
 
When GEC first started their knives had a very strong pull, which made for some complaints. After this GEC relaxed the pull, the last half a dozen I have purchased all have middle of the road pulls on them. I think you just had one that is not typical of their latest offerings. I myself like a strong pull on a knife, to me it adds strength and character, a bit like a strong hand shake. GEC has a slogan "Knives made how they used to be" A lot of early knives do have very strong back springs.

Russell
 
GECs have a reputation for having "nail breaker" pulls sometimes. Some patterns seem to be more prone to it than others. I hate that in a knife, myself, especially when paired with half stops. I'd send it in for service, or back to the dealer requesting they hand-select an exchange with lighter pulls, or just return it for a refund.

I've been lucky with the few I own, but I never buy a new release pattern of theirs until others have them and describe the pulls. The comments on the 78 Jack I've seen so far imply that it tends toward the harder end of the pull range. That particular knife isn't quite appealing to me for several reasons, but that's another one. Not all patterns are for everyone.
 
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The first GEC I bought, a Tidioute 73, was a bear trap and I was afraid to carry it. It was a complete 180 from the 73 that influenced me to buy that one. My buddies 73, which I bought a couple years ago, was smooth with just enough pull to satisfy me. I decided to try again, at a few knife shows with Ryan Daniels when they owned a stake in GEC. He had some real tough ones, ones that make your fingers run away in fear. I asked him why their knives were so hard to open, he said some people like that. I sure as heck didn't. But, they looked pretty and were great knives. The nexst year, most of the knives he had were much smoother. And so on. I started lurking here, and decided to get a few more GECs. A single blade 73 was just about perfect. The 15 series knives have had the perfect pull for me. I sent my 23s back in to get adjusted, I was seriously worried about disfigurement whenever opening or closing those knives. They worked on the single blade and it is perfect. The trapper however looks like nothing was done to it. Still a finger hunter as ever. I've had quite a few GEC models over the past year, their snap/walk and talk/pull is just about perfect. Except for a recent batch of 73 single blades, I got one at a great price, the original grind to kick ratio was no good. The pull was too stiff for me. I've been carrying it to hopefully smooth it out over time. Really, the only dud pull wise I've had recently, other than the pull the knife is just about perfect for me for carry.
 
I love GEC'S and am a big fan of a stiff pull.

Even my heaviest GEC pulls have gotten much softer with a with opening and closing the blades frequently.
 
I like strong pulls, one of my main concerns when getting into traditionals, admittedly an unfounded one, was weak pulls. I traded for a GEC boys knife (thanks Chris!), and I still like em strong, more of a personal preference thing I think, both have their advantages. :)

A strong pull and a half stop can take a little getting used to, though...my Northwood's #44 bit my knuckle when I was still getting used to the blade snapping into place half way. :o
 
Well, a lively discussion shall we say. Interesting responses all. A pretty complete spectrum of opinions too.


Rusty1 said:
When GEC first started their knives had a very strong pull, which made for some complaints. After this GEC relaxed the pull, the last half a dozen I have purchased all have middle of the road pulls on them. I think you just had one that is not typical of their latest offerings. I myself like a strong pull on a knife, to me it adds strength and character, a bit like a strong hand shake. GEC has a slogan "Knives made how they used to be" A lot of early knives do have very strong back springs.

Russell
Click to expand...

I did not know that, interesting.


jackknife said:
Filedog, I would love to enlighten you, but even as a lifelong user of traditional pocketknives, I never did understand this phenomenon either. And I grew up with these knives. Considering that in many places in the world people, real working people who are wrenching out a living like shepherds and farm workers, and carpenters, even use friction folders, I don't understand the heavy spring. I've seen my share of very old knives that were real workers, that had fairly easy pull back springs. My own grandfather emigrated from Ireland, and was a fishing trawler crewman in the cod industry. He had a large seaman's knife with a blade almost 5 inches, but it wasn't hard to open. As a child, I could pull the blade out with not much trouble. If a trawler fisherman working the Flemish Cap in the North Atlantic didn't need a bear trap back spring, who does?

Even when I was kid, we didn't like these kind of knives, and in fact our old scout master, a guy named Mr. Van warned us not to get a knife we had to fight with to open. If a knife is hard to open under normal perfect conditions, what happens when your hands are almost numb with cold, or wet, or even both? We used to hand pick our pocket knives by making a pest out of ourselves at the store. The poor clerk would have to bring out almost the whole stick on that model while we tried each one. And there were variances in production, even way back then.

I've always had a very strong preference for an easy opening knife. The very dynamics of cutting will keep a non locking blade open. I've used a Opinel with the locking ring removed to make it a real friction folder like they all were before 1955, and I had no trouble with using it. In fact, I liked it. Very easy on arthritic fingers with no back spring to snap it closed. Even my 4 year old granddaughter can deal with it while slicing her chicken nuggets in half under very close supervision.

Tell ya what, when you find out, let me in on it.:thumb up:

Carl.
Click to expand...

That, especially the highlighted part is my thought, exactly

jc57 said:
GECs have a reputation for having "nail breaker" pulls sometimes. Some patterns seem to be more prone to it than others. I hate that in a knife, myself, especially when paired with half stops. I'd send it in for service, or back to the dealer requesting they hand-select an exchange with lighter pulls, or just return it for a refund.

I've been lucky with the few I own, but I never buy a new release pattern of theirs until others have them and describe the pulls. The comments on the 74 Jack I've seen so far imply that it tends toward the harder end of the pull range. That particular knife isn't quite appealing to me for several reasons, but that's another one. Not all patterns are for everyone.
Click to expand...

I decided not to send it back to the factory due to the less than perfect results others have mentioned. I was able to return it, but the dealer seemed less than pleased at that point, and didn't respond to my final (polite) inquiry.
I would have been interested in exchanging it for one with a lighter pull.
 
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Rusty1 said:
When GEC first started their knives had a very strong pull, which made for some complaints. After this GEC relaxed the pull, the last half a dozen I have purchased all have middle of the road pulls on them. I think you just had one that is not typical of their latest offerings. I myself like a strong pull on a knife, to me it adds strength and character, a bit like a strong hand shake. GEC has a slogan "Knives made how they used to be" A lot of early knives do have very strong back springs.

Russell
Click to expand...

Actually Rusty, "Pocket Knives they way whey Used to Be" is my slogan. Although I am a Distributor of GEC, you won't find that slogan in any of their material.
 
filedog said:
Well, a lively discussion shall we say. Interesting responses all. A pretty complete spectrum of opinions too.




I did not know that, interesting.




That, especially the highlighted part is my thought, exactly



I decided not to send it back to the factory due to the less than perfect results others have mentioned. I was able to return it, but the dealer seemed less than pleased at that point, and didn't respond to my final (polite) inquiry.
I would have been interested in exchanging it for one with a lighter pull.
Click to expand...

The customer was given an IMMEDIATE 100% Refund of the Purchase Price. Also received an In Store Credit for Return Shipping. I see no reason to BASH the Distributor! We have other things to do than respond to people who return perfectly good knives. Who we have went to considerable lengths to satisfy to begin with. All for a $10 profit. The Customer never asked about, mentioned or inferred any interest in an Exchange. The Customer's last communication was not an "inquiry" at all, but in fact, a negative, sarcastic statement.
 
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I have eight GEC folders. One of them is kinda stiff (my #79), the others are medium ("just right" to me) pulls.

It sounds like the OP got an individual knife that was unusually stiff. Send it back for a different one would be what I'd do.
 
Sounds like the dealer took care of your concerns, Filedog. If you really like that knife pattern, maybe you could call another dealer and explain your preferences, and see if they could select one for you with a lighter pull.
 
The pulls on various GEC's have been discussed on this Forum, in various threads, Ad Nauseum. It is a general consensus, I believe, among most contributors that all New GEC knives need a thorough cleaning of the Pivots to start with. Having said that, there are a few, that to some, still have unacceptable strong blade pull. There are a number of options to further remedy the situation in the few knives, that to a few individuals, are too strong. First of all, I would suggest a person who is active on the Forum would be able to thoroughly research the various comments about a particular pattern before purchase. Not all patterns are for all people. There are also a number of remedies available for the particular issue of blade pull, not the least of which is return to manufacturer for Warranty Service. In this case the knife was hand picked for a very demanding customer. The customer then choose not to excersise any of the available options except return to the Distributor. After an immediate refund of his purchase price and credit for return shipping, to go on a public forum and complain about the knife, the distributor or any part of the experience is totally uncalled for and frankly quite offensive.
 
rma100 said:
The pulls on various GEC's have been discussed on this Forum, in various threads, Ad Nauseum. It is a general consensus, I believe, among most contributors that all New GEC knives need a thorough cleaning of the Pivots to start with. Having said that, there are a few, that to some, still have unacceptable strong blade pull. There are a number of options to further remedy the situation in the few knives, that to a few individuals, are too strong. First of all, I would suggest a person who is active on the Forum would be able to thoroughly research the various comments about a particular pattern before purchase. Not all patterns are for all people. There are also a number of remedies available for the particular issue of blade pull, not the least of which is return to manufacturer for Warranty Service. In this case the knife was hand picked for a very demanding customer. The customer then choose not to excersise any of the available options except return to the Distributor. After an immediate refund of his purchase price and credit for return shipping, to go on a public forum and complain about the knife, the distributor or any part of the experience is totally uncalled for and frankly quite offensive.
Click to expand...

You have an excellent reputation here Bob as both a contributor and a vendor. You can't please everyone no matter what you do.
 
FD, I am not a fan of half-stops for the exact reasons you enumerated, and they are especially difficult when paired with stout pull springs. I just received a #78 jack last week, and the pulls were just like my 2008 GECs, a 7½-8 pull, but even had the half-stops to exacerbate things. Rather than sending mine back, I just open the blades about halfway between the half-stop and fully open (135° open) and let it sit for a few days to a week. This stresses the spring to its maximum, softening them slightly down to a 6½-7, which is fine for me.

Do not give up on GEC, they make a fine knife. Try a pattern with cam tangs (no half-stop) and I think you will be very pleased. Also, their lockbacks (not linerlocks) have wonderful easy pulls.
 
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