Why are high end straight razors mostly made of low alloy steel?

[DeadboxHero]

The only "newer" steel I would want to try a razor in would be LC200N. In fact, I probably will.

Only problem is the low hardness. High hardness is important for razor performance along with the finer structure

 

[ToddS]

From what I can gather, 62 Rc is about the minimum for good razors. The only "new" steel razors I have are 3 (or 4?) Thiers Issard C135 carbonsong blades which is claimed to be 63-65 Rc.

I'd far rather have a Tim Zowada custom Tim-ahagane razor than any PM vanadium steel.

 

[DeadboxHero]

From what I can gather, 62 Rc is about the minimum for good razors. The only "new" steel razors I have are 3 (or 4?) Thiers Issard C135 carbonsong blades which is claimed to be 63-65 Rc.

I'd far rather have a Tim Zowada custom Tim-ahagane razor than any PM vanadium steel.

I'd be curious to see your opinions on Nitrobe 77

 

[Luke Dupont]

If high alloy tool/stainless steels (modern super steels) out perform more simple steels when it comes to fine edge holding. Why aren't more high end straight razors or straight razor enthusiasts and makers using them on their blades?

Because they seriously underperform simple steels when it comes to actually taking a fine edge.
In fact, most super steels contain large carbides that make it not only much more difficult (I'd say nearly impossible for something like a razor) to sharpen, they also, by their size and presence, make it impossible to achieve a truly fine edge.
Some super steels are much better in this regard than in others, but from my wood working experience, I'd say this:
1. Super steels take a good edge and hold it a long time. Simple steels take an exceptionally good edge, which degrades only slightly faster than super steels in my experience, which is mostly with push cuts through wood and leather working, or kitchen knives.
2. Very high quality simple steels, such as Japanese White Paper steel, are just all around superior in both edge retention and their ability to being able to take an absurdly keen edge. Even though these steels are harder than many super steels, I can still sharpen them just fine on natural stones.
3. I have noticed, again in woodworking, that steels with large carbides like A2 tend to form micro chips where those carbides break off at the cutting edge. This is probably largely responsible for their diminishing performance whereby which they get sharp, and then dull to a certain degree and hold on to a "kinda sorta sharp" edge for a longer time.

But, take everything with a grain of salt. I'm not the most knowledgeable person here with regards to steels, and I'm pretty new to razors. I just have a heck of a lot of experience pushing blades of various metals through wood and leather until they're very dull and then making them sharp again by many different methods. I've commented on woodworking forums about my observations, and the issue with carbides is the explanation I was given by someone very knowledgeable of different steels and metal working.

 

[UncleBoots]

Thanks to the kindness of a member here, I have a razor made from CPM-M4, a supersteel with fine carbides. It has become both friend and nemesis. Friend, because when honed to a razor edge, it gives me a great shave. Nemesis, because it has some difficult characteristics.

The most important of those is that it seems to chip. Shaving with anything produces little chips (and I'm talking about chips visible only under a microscope), but shaving with the CPM-M4 produces chips more quickly. And it's harder to hone than carbon steel razors.

On lower-grit stones (4000 and below), it will chip on leading-edge strokes. I finally figured out that I needed to go all trailing-edge until I get to a higher grit. I am currently in a honing sequence, and I only switched to leading edge when I hit the 16000 SG stone. This is the best honing run so far. I have high hopes.

It also likes to hang onto a burr, as though it were stainless.

I do like the razor a lot, because it shaves really really well when it's sharp, and I actually enjoy the challenge of sorting out how to hone it properly. But I can understand why people aren't making razors from this steel.

 

[Luke Dupont]

Thanks to the kindness of a member here, I have a razor made from CPM-M4, a supersteel with fine carbides. It has become both friend and nemesis. Friend, because when honed to a razor edge, it gives me a great shave. Nemesis, because it has some difficult characteristics.

The most important of those is that it seems to chip. Shaving with anything produces little chips (and I'm talking about chips visible only under a microscope), but shaving with the CPM-M4 produces chips more quickly. And it's harder to hone than carbon steel razors.

On lower-grit stones (4000 and below), it will chip on leading-edge strokes. I finally figured out that I needed to go all trailing-edge until I get to a higher grit. I am currently in a honing sequence, and I only switched to leading edge when I hit the 16000 SG stone. This is the best honing run so far. I have high hopes.

It also likes to hang onto a burr, as though it were stainless.

I do like the razor a lot, because it shaves really really well when it's sharp, and I actually enjoy the challenge of sorting out how to hone it properly. But I can understand why people aren't making razors from this steel.

Interesting, same as my experience with woodworking tools. Micro chipping.
Not something you'll likely notice on a blade for general, coarse work, but noticeable when I sharpened planes or chisels for fine work that requires a very sharp tool.

 

[Londinium Armoury]

Thanks to the kindness of a member here, I have a razor made from CPM-M4, a supersteel with fine carbides. It has become both friend and nemesis. Friend, because when honed to a razor edge, it gives me a great shave. Nemesis, because it has some difficult characteristics.

The most important of those is that it seems to chip. Shaving with anything produces little chips (and I'm talking about chips visible only under a microscope), but shaving with the CPM-M4 produces chips more quickly. And it's harder to hone than carbon steel razors.

On lower-grit stones (4000 and below), it will chip on leading-edge strokes. I finally figured out that I needed to go all trailing-edge until I get to a higher grit. I am currently in a honing sequence, and I only switched to leading edge when I hit the 16000 SG stone. This is the best honing run so far. I have high hopes.

It also likes to hang onto a burr, as though it were stainless.

I do like the razor a lot, because it shaves really really well when it's sharp, and I actually enjoy the challenge of sorting out how to hone it properly. But I can understand why people aren't making razors from this steel.

Sounds interesting, I've worked with some M2 before, that actually had quite good fine grain, it didn't seem to have too many large carbides, but then again I was putting really obtuse appleseed grinds on it to make machetes, I never tried any thin slicing blades, I could see it working though.