Why are Pakistani Blades so Cheap?

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Heat treat question here. Be gentile, I‘m learning.
Apparently red (sometimes looks white) hot isn’t all equal.
I understand there are ovens you can micro tune, but what about seeing custom makers go from oven to quench in an oil filled steel pipe. Or is that getting questionable results too?
It seems like a dude in Pakistan could get similar results with practice.
And why is Pakistan so famous for this? It almost seems like a “family tradition”
 
If you want a usable, inexpensive knife I've found many of the random Chinese made knives are just fine.

The Pakistan knives don't knife. You would be better off sharpening a metal ruler from the dollar store with an angle grinder.

Anyone remember the ads from Boys life in the mid 1990s? Pick a couple neat knives for a low price? Ya I totally fell for that one.
 
I remember ~30 years ago seeing a video shot by a big nationally-known TV news station about "Tradesmen of the Kyber Pass" or some similar title. They spent a lot of time following one craftsman who was using sections of railroad track, leaf springs, etc., for raw material and a forge, hammer, chisel and some files he'd made himself as tooling to make a Makarov pistol. To case-harden it, he put it in an empty paint can and packed the can with strips of leather from worn-out shoes and buried in a hole he'd filled with burning charcoal and make a small hole in the dirt he packed over it so the fire could breathe. He then let it cool and assembled, loaded and fired it without problems. The interviewer explained that, at least in that particular market, no one buys a pistol without first firing a full magazine (or 2) in the air; for an AK-47 they fire one or more fully loaded 30-round magazines with one press of the trigger and if that fails in any way, no sale. It was hard to hear some of the audio at time because of the large number of small arms being discharged.

Just imagine what these same guys could do if they had modern equipment and were taught how to use it! Being illiterate doesn't mean you're stupid or without knowledge and talent. I'm not shilling for Pakistani makers or saying they make good blades, but I'll have to say I was impressed by what they could do with so little to work with.
 
Thorgrim said:
I remember ~30 years ago seeing a video shot by a big nationally-known TV news station about "Tradesmen of the Kyber Pass" or some similar title. They spent a lot of time following one craftsman who was using sections of railroad track, leaf springs, etc., for raw material and a forge, hammer, chisel and some files he'd made himself as tooling to make a Makarov pistol. To case-harden it, he put it in an empty paint can and packed the can with strips of leather from worn-out shoes and buried in a hole he'd filled with burning charcoal and make a small hole in the dirt he packed over it so the fire could breathe. He then let it cool and assembled, loaded and fired it without problems. The interviewer explained that, at least in that particular market, no one buys a pistol without first firing a full magazine (or 2) in the air; for an AK-47 they fire one or more fully loaded 30-round magazines with one press of the trigger and if that fails in any way, no sale. It was hard to hear some of the audio at time because of the large number of small arms being discharged.

Just imagine what these same guys could do if they had modern equipment and were taught how to use it! Being illiterate doesn't mean you're stupid or without knowledge and talent. I'm not shilling for Pakistani makers or saying they make good blades, but I'll have to say I was impressed by what they could do with so little to work with.
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I saw a documentary about a family in the Philippines making 1911s out of car springs. It followed the black market through the channels to the US. They ended up being sold here for $800. I can’t remember what the family made.
These guns were shockingly nice.
edit: they only used hand tools.
 
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Does it meet any of the specifications for the metallurgy they claim? Who knows.
Did they design the knife themselves or steal the intellectual property rights? Who knows.
Does it have any sort of product liability insurance behind it. I doubt it.
Did they spend any money or effort to refine the product design. No way.
Did they have to develop and promote that particular design or brand? No, it was done by the real company.
Will some people still buy it? You bet. very few have any integrity anymore.
 
Good luck with any Pakistan made product. I've yet to see any with good heat treat and if you think they are the steel they are supposed to be you are being generous. I've seen a few with no heat treat ( dollar tree) and one was actually made of chrome plated plastic of some kind ( guy bought at gunshow and couldn't get it sharp and asked me to try) . I wouldn't take a Pakistan made knife if offered for free. :)
 
dogstar said:
My initial reaction:
1) People from other cultures probably wash their feet regularly
2) As long as you cook it, who cares?
3) Meat processing plants can be disgusting in their own way, you just don't see it.
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Did you just defend the practice of rubbing meat on your feet before eating it? Cooking meat doesn’t get rid of dirt, and meat processing plants are actually very strictly regulated in their audited practices.
 
GmpaJim said:
Heat treat question here. Be gentile, I‘m learning.
Apparently red (sometimes looks white) hot isn’t all equal.
I understand there are ovens you can micro tune, but what about seeing custom makers go from oven to quench in an oil filled steel pipe. Or is that getting questionable results too?
It seems like a dude in Pakistan could get similar results with practice.
And why is Pakistan so famous for this? It almost seems like a “family tradition”
Click to expand...

The problem with most Pakistani knives is that they work on volume sales, so there is no watch of temperature, soak time, etc.... They all get a quick heat up, and then a dunk in water. I've never seen actual tempering from most of them.

There are a few good Pakistani smiths that do work closer to western standards, but they also charge closer to western standards. Everyone works to what they're paid for, and Pakistan is still seen as cheap labor that makes cheap knives, and that's all that's asked of them. Also no Western cutlery dealers of note will ask more of them, because it would take too long to rehabilitate the name, so to speak. It took about 25 years for Chinese brands to not be seen as junk knives. It would be much longer for Pakistan.
 
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Apologies for not having the integrity of a previous poster. 🙏

I do have a couple of questionable origin damascus blades, bought well over a decade ago. They were bought from UK addresses on eBay, but I think they were made in Asia. One had some issues, looks-wise, so I got some refund.
These were bought for the way they look, and if you do not intend to use the knife, but just to display them or look at them (which is what many of us do here with several knives, as we have plenty of other knives) then I assume you can still buy it.

Just make sure you understand that you are not buying a usable knife but a wall-hanger.

Here is a picture of one of them, at the bottom of the photograph. Lockback, works OK, I have no clue how well it cuts.
For cheaper usable Damascus knives there are options from RR (top) or Boker Magnum and possibly others.
https://imgur.com/UdlOVSf
 
Pakistan by and large makes garbage knives.
We used to buy Pakistan daggers all the time from the used furniture store when we were 12 years old; brass guard and pommel, wood handle. Those daggers were probably the best Pakistan knives I have encountered. The steel was soft, but they didn't break easily.

I kind of miss my old crappy Pakistan dagger.

I got one for nostalgia's sake a couple years back, but it wasn't quite as neat:

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I think the Pakistan knives got even worse over the last few decades.
 
dogstar said:
My initial reaction:
1) People from other cultures probably wash their feet regularly
2) As long as you cook it, who cares?
3) Meat processing plants can be disgusting in their own way, you just don't see it.
Click to expand...

The bacteria under that guy's toenails must be vile. I have to assume you're just playing Devil's advocate here, because if I saw this happening at a place I was seated at, I'm leaving immediately. Human beings have crevices, and those crevices are usually a hotbed of microbial activity. This guy's food stand is a hard no for me.
 
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