Why are people so hard on EKI?

Joined
Apr 17, 2000
Messages
307
From time to time I browse through the forums and come across a thread that just tears EKI apart. This is happens more toward emerson knives than an other maker I've seen on the forum.

At one time I owned a production 7. It was a really fine knife, but just not my thing. I think EKI should be applauded for the quality to work they do. I hope they ignore the negative comments and keep on doing what they're doing.

Just my 2 cents,
Clay
 
As far as I can ascertain, it has to do with alot of sour grapes and jealousy. There were some valid criticisms of Emerson's policies regarding Custom Orders in the past. The main person that fueled that controversy wanted a deal of some sort of exclusivity with Emerson and when that did not happen, the person fired a broadside at Ernie. You see, the policy in question was absolutely OK until someone did not get what they wanted, then the torrent of nonsense was released.

Ernie rectified that situation, much to his credit and came out stronger but a bad taste lingers in the mouths of many because of this. And they fire on him.

Then, the other people who don't know what is fueling it, they jump on the bandwagon and grab a stick too.

I think at this point, it is like a Mob Mentality thing, similar to a riot phenomenon in microcosm, in that, one person starts, then they all pile on him.

This is my opinion and not necessarily that of Ernie's or EKI's, I'm not employed by them, I don't even own a Custom. I do, however, own more than a "few" of their Production Models and I can't say that I have been disappointed.

I am reluctant to whine about knives I have had that have failed. Or from crappy Customer Service I have received.

I do have to say this, however, I see some of these same people who criticize Emerson Knives, I see them in other venues extolling the virtues of Spyderco Starmates and Military Clipits.

I have been more or less silent on this issue in the past, but I am entirely nauseous with the current Online "Sport" of beating EKI up.

When the Spyderco Military came out, I purchased one. I slashed through a damned cardboard box in an "X" Pattern, those in the Filipino Martial Arts will recognize that as #1 & #2. That was about 8 to 12 cuts in total. Brand new knife. The flat of the blade did not hit (please, I know how to orient the edge, I know how to cut) and the blade was incredibly loose. Lateral wobble that was significant and dangerous in my opinion. A failure. There was no harsh treatment of this knife, especially in light of the fact that it is called, "The Military," right?

I explained in a note to Spyderco Customer Service what happened and sent it back. They sent it back a couple of weeks later, I performed the same movement and it did the same damned thing. They tightened it up as I had been trying to tighten it. I paid USPS Priority Shipping and Insurance for them to turn an allen wrench. Big deal. I had done that myself, I did not have to send it to Colorado to do that, I wanted it fixed.

It sat in the knife drawer until a friend of mine saw it and just had to have it. I explained it to him, he didn't care. OK, whatever, give me a $100.00 and it's yours.

Some time ago, I traded one knife for many, and in that batch of "many," was a Spyderco Starmate. It suffered the same problem. I did not waste my money sending it back to Spyderco. I used it for a boxcutter at work and that was it. And it came loose every night just cutting through several dozen boxes, to open them, not "practice" on them.

Someone at work wanted it, I explained they would have to tighten it constantly, they did not care. Thank you, give me $75.00 and it's a deal.

I see people criticizing the Commander in particular for this very same problem. While my Commander will loosen, I don't even have to take a screwdriver to it. My thumb turning it about 5 mm does the trick.

Could Emerson solve this problem? Of course they could! They need to switch to another type of screw, that's all. Why don't they? I have no idea.

I bought a friend of mine a Spyderco Endura for his birthday, he was cutting tape over his head, while on a ladder, working on some wires or something...the spine of the blade tapped an overhead "I" beam and the knife closed on his knuckles. A failure of the lock on a brand new knife.

Benchmades? My AFCK and CQC-7 I once had, a frame screw on each walked out from normal use after awhile. Guess what? They were stripped from the factory, that is why they walked out on their own.

That is not to say that Spyderco cannot make a good knife, or Benchmade for that matter. What it points out is, for some reason, people keep quiet when it is someone else and scream bloody murder when their EKI is not quite up to par.

As for the Spyderco Military and Starmate, they have a single liner and the problem lies there. Why isn't this an issue? it makes no sense.

I have had a bum knife at one time or another from everyone. Anyone's QC can slip, anyone can put out a bum knife or a whole batch of them. It is the nature of production. Isn't it?

I just get a real bad feeling when I see the other group of "Usual Suspects," whom I refer to as, "The Usual Whiners" talking up other designs that are not as good as EKI's, then, have the balls to try to nutpunch EKI, Ernie Emerson or people like me that like Emerson Knives.


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"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
Some of my Knives and other neat things

[This message has been edited by Don Rearic (edited 05-05-2001).]
 
I see it as this:
There is a trend in society to tear down the achievers to the level of the lowest bum so that the bum doesn't feel bad about himself. It's called "dumbing down" and our US tax code is a prime example: tax the life out of Bill Gates and then take that money to support lazy people on welfare.

EKI knives revolutionized the tactical knife community. They still move forward with innovations like the wave. Therefore, they are at the top of the production tactical knife market. This puts a BIG bullseye on Ernie's back. The can't-hack-it-pantywastes that worship MT or BM, can't stand this, and instead of pushing MT or BM to move higher, they try to drag Ernie and EKI DOWN to their level to make themselves feel better about their $150 MT SOCOM.

Recenty Derek posted on this forum that SEAL Team One just took delivery of a bunch of Waved CQC7B's. http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum16/HTML/001448.html

To me, That's a hell of an endorsement!!! SEALs are NOT Weekend Warriors, contrary to what guys like e_uTROLLia say.

When you're the best, everyone is out to beat ya, whether it's the Chicago Bulls w/ Jordan, Dallas Cowboys in the early nineties, the NY Yankees, Tiger Woods.........Instead of trying better themselves to beat the best, they try to take the best down to their level.

Human nature, I guess.

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Brigadier
Beretta 92 FS nut and Wave-aholic
"And for this cause God shall send them stong delusion,that they should believe a lie;" 2 Thessalonians 2:11
"And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather reprove[expose] them." Ephesians 5:11
 
I really do believe that alot of the anger towards Ernie stems from the fact that he is one of a small handful of Makers who actually knows how to use a knife, to fight with it.

I think this pisses off the bedwetters around BFC to no end. And I think because he promotes that fact, pisses them off more.

That's where some of the "weekend warrior, wannabe, ninja, rambo" bullsh*t starts.

You could see the same mentality with Blade Magazine's vitriol towards Fighting Knives Magazine way back when.

------------------
"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
Some of my Knives and other neat things
 
Hiya Guys.

I found e_utrolla's email addy if any of you are interested. It is e_utopia@hotmail.com

Personally, I wouldn't waste my time on him. I 've had my share of run ins with him, and he is probably head of the BFC troll club, and a JAFA who is obviously an EKI hater for some warped reason.

Ernie's CQC-6 design(which I cannot talk my brother out of) was my first exposure to him, and I immediately bought the BM CQC-7 as soon as it came out. I also recently picked up a used EKI made CQC-7, and have had NO problems whatsoever.

I also wish the EKI bashing would cease.Ernie is a great knifemaker, and deserves the credit for creating the ultimate tactical knife.

Mike

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DISCLAIMER:

The opinions expressed here are my own, and in no way reflect the opinion of any other person, living or dead. Of course, your opinion may vary, in which case the prevailing laws of your jurisdiction shall apply.

firedept_md_wht.gif


[This message has been edited by CODE 3 (edited 05-05-2001).]
 
The real sh*ts & giggles part is, he eliminated the address recently.

He's a troll. Trolls have a right to an opinion. That does not mean it is valid. What I have said in this thread is valid as far as I'm concerned.

At least I don't go around busting everyone's balls all the time about the stuff they carry, which in many cases can be called "junk" in all honesty.

------------------
"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
Some of my Knives and other neat things
 
Two types of people/companies draw fire.The leaders and those that like to rattle cages so to speak.Cold steel also takes a lot of heat because they don't hide the fact that their knives are weapons as well as tools.They also make a lot of bold claims(cage rattlin').

The last time guys started rippin on CS for their ads I said"hey they must be great ads,look at how much you guys always talk about them! Things kind of got quiet after that.
 
Funny part is, Ernie is one of the nicest, most knowledgeable and humble people I have met.

Many people look at Martial Artists as just plain fighters. They miss the patience, humility and respect that is an equal part of every true Martial Artist. A mindless "robot" doesn't last real long in real life.

Again, any twelve year old can talk smack on his daddy's computer. All one needs to do is create a "Hotmail" account and "poof", instant expert. Ignore them, they fade away.

John
 
Originally posted by Don Rearic:
I really do believe that alot of the anger towards Ernie stems from the fact that he is one of a small handful of Makers who actually knows how to use a knife, to fight with it.

To extend Don's point: Few folks in our modern world truly deadicate their lives and being to martial professionalism. A simple reason for this is because it takes years of focused hard work to achive success in a society that disdains the martial professional. This is compounded by a strange duality -- Our society fears/hates the real martial professional, but loves to watch his mythical Hollywood image blowing up cars with his 5.56.

This helps to create a fallacy that one can purchase their way toward becoming a mega-warrior. Simpltons believe that owning the most powerful weapon makes them the best fighter. They neglect, nor respect the years of hard work it takes to develop personal skill at arms(or the arm itself). Since they are so object involved, it's easy to focus on slight imprefections in the tool.

So now, here's a man, Emerson who has worked harder that most, to foster a very eleclectic field. Can his detractors match his deadication in their respective fields?

No.

If they could match Ernie's efforts, they would have respect for his achivements. Furthermore, they would be more forgiving of mistakes. Pioneers tend to make a few more errors, as well as breakthoughs, than those that follow.

But for some it's easier to pluck down, eat chips, watch videos and muddle over which knife is a rip-off; while bitchin' bout what blade some other guy may be carrying.

Seth

 
So.... I should use my Commanders for more than just to open bags of Zapp's Craw Taters?
biggrin.gif
 
NO, DAM IT DONT DO IT!!!

If you would not use the front sight of your new H&K P7/M13 to open the bag of chips, why would you use another weapon for a utility task???

thats what a raven(needs a wave, it really does. Love the handle more than the G-10 but it needs a wave.) is for.
 
I wouldn't consider myself as being down on EKI but I did have less than a euphoric experience when starting out in my US indoctrination. Some of which was not my doing, and some of which was my own fault.

I've been through (and still have) a gaggle of the other "tactical folders." When in my usual environs, white collar these days, I have a small Sebenza, BM 940 or, of late, a CUDA EDC. When afield, I am very partial towards fix blades and usually can be found with a CRK One Piece or a Busse. These are my favorite field knives and I have gotten accustomed to their fit, finish, function and reliability.

In larger folders, my favorite is the large Sebenza, (not a tac-folder), the MT LCC and the SERE 2K. The Wegner and Military also have their virtues and places in my quiver.

I followed from a distance at this forum as a passing curiousity, but never held or even touched an Emerson. I was sort of familiar with them, again from a distance, as Mr. Emerson was a SEAL and I am familiar with the UDT and BUD/S programs as well as the brave and determined men who wear the Budweiser. I also know that Dick Marcinko was a CQC6 fan and he has been known to be a tad (T.A.D. also)
wink.gif
hard on his gear, his men and himself!

I bunked into Mike and Spark at the last SHOT show and they were both sporting Commanders. For the first time, I held one and personally witnessed the Wave.

After an interesting time at the Blackhawk booth and then out later, (whole 'nother story), I caught my flight back and ordered a Commander even before unpacking.

When it arrived I was, well, disappointed. Yes, the design was great and the Wave was as advertised but I was not at all impressed with the fit and finish compared to knives costing about a third less.

Keep in mind, however, that these knives are apparently made as users, not showcase queens and perhaps I was evaluating a cup by the standards of a saucer, but I voiced my opinion here and was quickly slapped by the faithful. I saw Usual Suspects as thin skinned and defensive.

After some thought, and not posting here much, I realized that Usual Suspects enjoy their Emersons (as do I) but see past the toolmarks, thin liners and scratches. Perhaps, like scotch, a taste needs to be acquired. I was comparing my Commander to other knives that very well could have been designed with different performance objectives in mind. Maybe after I use the darn thing for a while I'll feel differently. As a newbie I had some preconceived notion of the knife being more like the SERE with a thick liner lock, stout feel and superb execution. I was used to the Sebenza and LCC which both cost more than the Commander and are not of the same intent.

Would I get another Emerson? Sure. Have I fully acquired the taste? No, I still do not appreciate the price to fit/finish ratio but maybe I shouldn't be so focused on that either.

Hope I don't get flamed for any of my candor as it was intended as genuine.


[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited 05-06-2001).]
 
Nimrod,

No flames from here man.

The one correction I would make is that Ernie was not and is not a SEAL team member and has never claimed to be. He is often associated to them due to the popularity his products with that particular group.

John
 
John, Thanks for the Nomex
smile.gif


I had assumed (yeah, yeah, I know, Demo Dick's 8th Commandment) ... Perhaps I cross-confused him with Mike Noell and his post service life and entrepenuerial ventures.

Thanks again.
 
I think that everyone can agree that the liners could be and should be thicker. Unfortunately, that is not the case at the moment. The screw that makes up the pivot should be changed as well so it does not rotate freely and acts like a pivot instead of a screw.

I think a state of hypersensitivity has existed in here, in the past, with blatant trolling and that has caused some other people to get burned down with the trollers.

------------------
"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
Some of my Knives and other neat things
 
Roger that on the trolling. Not everyone who is critical or who "fails to see the light" is a troll, however.

A bushing for the blade to pivot on, instead of the screw and thicker liners. How much could that cost? How much better would it make the knife? Does EKI listen?

Putting aside being fussy about tool marks and less than finished finishes, the above two changes would go a long way to make a good knife better, don't ya think?

Compare EKI's prices to those above and below it, then compare their product to those above and below it and you will see where the proverbial beef is.

[This message has been edited by Nimrod (edited 05-06-2001).]
 
<font face="Verdana, Arial" size="2">Originally posted by Nimrod:
Compare EKI's prices to those above and below it, then compare their product to those above and below it and you will see where the proverbial beef is.</font>

That also depends on what you intend on using the knife for. Let's leave the CQC-7 out of this for a moment and look at the Commander, SOCFK and SpecWar Folders. They have a rather nice index finger notch, not only is this a good felt index, it is better than having nothing there, it acts as a mini guard to help preserve your fingers.

I am speaking specifically of the thrust and these are my Defensive Weapons, so this is paramount to me.

Let me explain further, on my Custom Crawford WORTAC, there is the same pesky feature that I love. Same with the Crawford KFF that I want in the future. See where I am going?

The problem with comparing Emerson Knives with Benchmades and Spydercos, from the start is this feature alone.

I see people whining and opining on locks, well, the lock is no good if the lock holds and your hand still slides up the blade.

The Spyderco Gunting, although it is an incredibly UGLY knife, was designed to be used as a Defensive Weapon. It has an excellent grip and an equally excellent lock. The lock does not rely on a spring like the Axis and others like the Axis. Which is another point to be made when discussing the trolling that has taken place in the General Forum.

E-Trolla called the "Wave" a "gimmick," yet, he relies on a spring to save his fingers.

Now, on the other side of things, I know more than a little about Japanese Tantojutsu and various ways that a knife can be gripped in combat and descriptions of these methods are way too involved to go into here, but suffice it to say, I feel pretty comfortable with almost any knife I have in my hand because of this.

I also work grip strength exercises which are also a part of this and a must for anyone who uses Edged Weapons, Impact Weapons or Firearms.



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"You are no more armed because you are wearing a pistol than you are a musician because you own a guitar." ~Jeff Cooper
And the same goes for a knife...
And, I'm a Usual Suspect.
Some of my Knives and other neat things
 
When speaking on the issue of design, and considering defense and combat as a criteria, one would be hard pressed to ignore the virtues of Emerson Knives. I definately grant you that much.
 
Why can't everybody else express their views as eloquently and well thought out as nimrod? He may be the first person to criticize EKI in a way that did not make me really mad. WOW! Flamers, take a lesson!

Good job, nimrod.

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-Scott Richter
Usual Suspect
Sarcastic? Who,me?
 
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