Why are the Spyderco Mil/Para-Mil's tipdown only?

[D1omedes]

I'd prefer something like this. Those STR clips are ugly!

Link.

I completely disagree. STR does great work. :thumbup:

Tip up, tip down, doesn't really bother me. If I'm carrying an EDC near non-knife people, then I want a low-riding clip (which is usually tip-up). If I'm carrying on the weekend or in an open setting, then tip-up works fine.

 

[Donnydo]

It's less safe than tip-up since the knife is only held shut by the detent and a little gravity.

Tip-up situates the blade against the seam of the pants and generally provides much more closing force against the blade to keep it shut. .

I think that depends on in which pocket you carry your knife.

Joe

 

[Azraell]

I prefer tip up because I'm used to drawing my knife like that. It just feels right.

I've tried tip down carry, and it messes me up.

 

[coop1957]

I'd prefer something like this. Those STR clips are ugly!

Link.

Beauty fallows function.
Ugly is in the eye of the beholder.
The link shows a stock Spyderco clip that was remounted for tip up.

In the eye of this beholder STR clips are better because:
1. They are made from Titanium which is stronger than stock clips.
2. They are lower riding in the pocket.
3. The stock clip has a black coating that gets chipped away. Many people completely strip the coating off to get it over with.

 

[ARNG ret.]

Although I have not been around this forum as long as most, I still recognize that this discussion(tip up/down) has gone on and on before; nothing new here on this thread. I put away an Endura because it was tip up but now have a Ritter Grip which is tip up and I like it. May have to revisit the Endura. Think the safety factor either way is overblown; doubt that either way is a big deal for most knife users; try both ways; I was convinced tip down was only way, now it doesn't matter; the knife is the thing.

 

[yablanowitz]

It's less safe than tip-up since the knife is only held shut by the detent and a little gravity.

Tip-up situates the blade against the seam of the pants and generally provides much more closing force against the blade to keep it shut. Tip-up also allows Waved/field expedient Wave use.

For some the preference is ergonomic, depending on how you draw your knife one or the other type will situate the knife in your hand in a more comfortable way. I prefer tip-down for the safety factor and the ergonomics make more sense for me.

Someone has to trot that out every time this discussion comes up, which is about once a month. It is only true if:

1) you only carry your knife at the back of your pocket. I carry my Millie at the front corner of my back pocket, where the spine of the tip-down blade is against the seam.

2) your knife always stays exactly where you put it. Having had knives move away from the corners of my pockets while I'm working, (and subsequently had tip-up knives come open in my pocket) I think only a fool or someone who doesn't move around much would rely on that.

Back to the original topic, the Military was designed to be as light as possible, which is why it is a liner lock, and why the liner(s) are only partial. G-10 and CF don't really hold threads all that well, so the clip was placed where there was steel for the threads of the clip screws. The next generation of each is supposed to be four-way clip, which means they are very likely going to be heavier. That is not a good thing in my book.

 

[coop1957]

G-10 and CF don't really hold threads all that well, so the clip was placed where there was steel for the threads of the clip screws.

If done right G10 will hold screws well. Probable not as good as steel. I've had no problems with my Para tip up by STR for almost thee years now.

 

[orthogonal1]

...
Was there a purpose to their decision to only allow one type of carry?

Because that is the way intelligent people carry their knives .

 

[spoonrobot]

Someone has to trot that out every time this discussion comes up, which is about once a month. It is only true if:

1) you only carry your knife at the back of your pocket. I carry my Millie at the front corner of my back pocket, where the spine of the tip-down blade is against the seam.

2) your knife always stays exactly where you put it. Having had knives move away from the corners of my pockets while I'm working, (and subsequently had tip-up knives come open in my pocket) I think only a fool or someone who doesn't move around much would rely on that.

Well, aren't you in a mood today?

You'll have to excuse me for not being explicitly clear in which carry method I was discussing. I thought we were discussing front pocket carry but it appears you assume that I have either never carried a knife in my back pocket or have never thought to wonder how to best accomplish such a task.

Of course the blade is only at the seam when front pocket carried! The knife is in a completely different orientation when transferred to the rear pocket. Guess what? It's also only against the seam if carried tip-up with the clip on the right side of the knife in the right front pocket. Are you going to bust my balls for not mentioning that moving the knife to the left front pocket would have the blade opening arc into the pocket and no longer supported by the seam? In addition to that, when front pocket carried the knife is not going to shift into the pocket as much or at all when compared to rear pocket carrying. The cut/sweep of the pocket will prevent this, any force will move the knife towards the rear of the pocket.

In the eye of this beholder STR clips are better because:

That's fine you think they're better, I still think they're ugly. Don't get your feelings hurt, it's just my opinion.

 

[jesse2205]

It doesn't matter to me if the tip is down/up. It would never compel me to sell my millies/paras!!!

 

[Josh K]

Well, aren't you in a mood today?

You'll have to excuse me for not being explicitly clear in which carry method I was discussing. I thought we were discussing front pocket carry but it appears you assume that I have either never carried a knife in my back pocket or have never thought to wonder how to best accomplish such a task.

Of course the blade is only at the seam when front pocket carried! The knife is in a completely different orientation when transferred to the rear pocket. Guess what? It's also only against the seam if carried tip-up with the clip on the right side of the knife in the right front pocket. Are you going to bust my balls for not mentioning that moving the knife to the left front pocket would have the blade opening arc into the pocket and no longer supported by the seam? In addition to that, when front pocket carried the knife is not going to shift into the pocket as much or at all when compared to rear pocket carrying. The cut/sweep of the pocket will prevent this, any force will move the knife towards the rear of the pocket.


That's fine you think they're better, I still think they're ugly. Don't get your feelings hurt, it's just my opinion.

He must definitly was not "busting your balls" simply expressing flaws in the argument for tip up carry.

In my mind tip up is for dressy-er knives.

I prefer tip down overall, just feels better off the draw. Some knives, like the SMF I don't mind tip up though.

 

[Dave Rishar]

It's less safe than tip-up since the knife is only held shut by the detent and a little gravity.

I've heard the same argument against tip-up. I'm not convinced either way, as I have yet to be injured by a knife in my pocket regardless of how it's oriented.

For some the preference is ergonomic, depending on how you draw your knife one or the other type will situate the knife in your hand in a more comfortable way. I prefer tip-down for the safety factor and the ergonomics make more sense for me.

Ergonomics makes more sense; familiarity might even be a better description. I often carry a Manix 2 and it still does not feel "right" to me, nor have any other tip-up knives that I've owned.

I've never owned a Waved knife so I won't comment on that, other than to state that the reason that I've never owned one is that I haven't found such a feature necessary. If this is a deal-breaker for someone, I can understand their insistence on tip-up.

 

[ExMachina]

.

ultimately it all boils down to personal preference, but i have to ask: does it really matter? tip-up/tip-down...so what? orientations will put the open blade into your hand in a secure manner. and as long as the blade opens and locks with predictable ease & assurance (and remains closed w/ equal assurance!), i'm very happy. i'm way more concerned about the overall functionality of the knife.

so far, my only functional complaint w/ spyderco tip-down is that the shear BULK of the spydie hole at the top of the pocket can render that pocket otherwise useless.

 

[yablanowitz]

I've heard the same argument against tip-up. I'm not convinced either way, as I have yet to be injured by a knife in my pocket regardless of how it's oriented.

I remember when I could truthfully say that, but it has been a few years. Left index finger once, right index finger twice (once by itself and once with the middle finger as well), right forearm once when the tip of the blade went through my jeans and got my arm as it went by, and left thigh when the blade tip went through the pocket. And before you ask, they were all Benchmades and Spydercos, not some cheap gas station crap. I really don't much care for tip up carry, especially with Axis locks and Ball Bearing locks.

Spoonrobot, I apologize for making you think I was "busting your balls". What you put forth in the post I quoted is the most common argument I see in favor of tip up carry, and as you might guess from my experiences, I find that argument somewhat less than convincing.

 

[carrot]

Actually the Para and Military are so fast for deployment as tip down I wouldn't carry it any other way. I mostly carry tip up knives but I make an exception for these two...

 

[LouZava]

Hey Dave Rishar, that Dancing cat on your Sig. is halarious!! (Cat lover here) haha. Anyway we will see when my Spydie Millie gets here next week! Im sure I will not mind.

 

[Azraell]

Because that is the way intelligent people carry their knives .

I bet it's really a conspiracy to root out the less intelligent people.

 

[spoonrobot]

Spoonrobot, I apologize for making you think I was "busting your balls". What you put forth in the post I quoted is the most common argument I see in favor of tip up carry, and as you might guess from my experiences, I find that argument somewhat less than convincing.

No problem here, your post just came off a lot less friendly than usual, kinda took me off guard. :thumbup:

I understand the different preferences so I should have backed-up and stated; that for me, tip-up appears to be safer than tip-down since I carry my knife in the same pocket as my wallet I sometimes have problems snagging the blade with my hand when reaching in/out of the pocket. With tip-up my hand just rubs the handle so it's a better way to carry, for me.

I suppose, as with a lot of things, the answer is; it depends...

 

[yablanowitz]

Yup. The only problem I've had with a tip-down so far was when I was carrying a 640 Mini-Spike next to my wallet, in my left back pocket (the 640 is RH TD only). The wallet snagged the thumbstud on the knife, opening the blade far enough to murder the wallet. I don't carry that way any more.