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Why are there so many knives that are half carbon fiber and half titatnium?

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by KalkiKrosah, Oct 13, 2018 at 2:44 PM.

  1. KalkiKrosah

    KalkiKrosah

    11
    May 2, 2018
    I'm talking about the handle scales on most popular pocket knives these days. I never understood why knife makers opt to go with a carbon fiber show side and then make the back end of the knife titanium. Is there a practical reason for it being that way? Is it to cut/add on weight or reduce the price point?

    I'm asking because I was looking at some carbon fiber knives and there aren't many out there that are full carbon fiber construction. From an aesthetic point of view I just think a knife looks best with uniform carbon fiber or a uniform titanium handle scales. I want to know if there's some underlying reason for it being the way that it is.
     
  2. ScooterG

    ScooterG You mean Ireland? Yeah, it’s mine. Platinum Member

    Mar 15, 2016
    If you’re looking at framelocks, they can’t realistically be made with full CF. Most of the knives you’re probably looking at will have some kind of metal under at least one the CF scales.
     
    jbmonkey likes this.
  3. Danke42

    Danke42

    Feb 10, 2015
    With a Ti scale you can integrate a lockbar. You can't do that with CF; it's a neat material but it has it's limitations.

    You can get wild shapes in CF or a grippy texture on G10 a lot more easily than with Ti.

    One side for go, one side for show.
     
  4. Peter Hartwig

    Peter Hartwig Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 29, 2008
    Framelocks of course will not be full CF, CF is not going to make a good locking mechanism.
    On framelocks CF can be used for weight, looks or just variety. I have CF scales with and without a liner and liner locks with CF scales both sides(though mine has ti bolsters)
    But then again I may not be following what you are looking for.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2018 at 5:03 PM
  5. ScooterG

    ScooterG You mean Ireland? Yeah, it’s mine. Platinum Member

    Mar 15, 2016
    This is the closest I’ve seen. Lock bar is screwed into the CF.
    [​IMG]
     
    jkwithawave and Night Rider like this.
  6. RBid

    RBid

    Apr 6, 2014
    Speaking in terms of function, ti lock sides tend to have enough going on to lock into your hand pretty nicely. The step formed by the frame and lockbar when the knife is opened, the pocket clip, etc provide places to secure your hand. Ti lock sides are often smooth, so they won’t jack up your pockets like aggressive G-10 or (theoretically) CF. The G-10 or CF show side provides texture on an otherwise potentially slick slab. It’s the best of both worlds!

    All of what I just wrote is the kind of hair splitting you may find in a knife review.

    I prefer full ti, for no reason that I could pretend has any objective value.
     
  7. microbe

    microbe

    215
    Apr 6, 2016
    They are out there. 2018 knife of the year is a Fox knives SURU. Full CF framelock. I don't know it is available yet. Other locks allow CF scales better, like the axis lock and its variants, or back locks. You just have to look a bit harder to find them.
     
  8. SpySmasher

    SpySmasher Lead Guitar Platinum Member

    Sep 1, 2016
    Lack of imagination.
     
    willc, Blues Bender and Dangerously like this.
  9. ScooterG

    ScooterG You mean Ireland? Yeah, it’s mine. Platinum Member

    Mar 15, 2016
    The SURU scales/frame are still 10% steel. They released the aluminum models and the Ti and CF are due soon.
     
  10. marrenmiller

    marrenmiller Basic Member Basic Member

    407
    Apr 6, 2017
    You know, if someone took the time to properly design a lockbar with uniaxial CF and a proper layup schedule, it could be done with a flexural stiffness nearly or matching that of titanium, and similar or better flexural and compressive strength. That would be much better than using weave and just milling out a lockbar shape. It just would require a ton of cost, effort, and expertise that isn't very common, plus you might have to create your own lockbar molds to do it effectively. Plus it would be nearly impossible to adjust or fine tune your lock bar tension if it comes out wrong from the mold.

    It would be neat to see, but I think those are some reasons why nobody will do it.
     
    Night Rider likes this.
  11. KalkiKrosah

    KalkiKrosah

    11
    May 2, 2018
    Alright, so just to consolidate all the replies, the reasoning behind the titanium being there is because most folding knives still use a liner lock and carbon fiber isn't well suited to be used as a liner lock.


    I do not own any titanium construction knives as of yet (my collection is kept under a dozen knives) but I do own a 940-1, which is full carbon fiber handle scales. I know that Benchmade's axis lock and Spyderco's back lock allow it to circumvent the need for a liner lock but I think full carbon fiber can still be done on a liner lock if someone were to put in steel/aluminum inlays and extend that into being the liner lock. It won't be identical on both sides with the steel liner jutting out from underneath on one side but it could maximize the carbon fiber into a more uniform look.
     
  12. microbe

    microbe

    215
    Apr 6, 2016
    I suppose you are referring to frame lock instead of liner lock.
    Liner lock knives with 2 cf scales are not hard to find.
     
    JacksonKnives likes this.
  13. marrenmiller

    marrenmiller Basic Member Basic Member

    407
    Apr 6, 2017
    They do that already. KAI refers to them as sub-frame or sub-liner locks. It's an interesting idea.
     
  14. KalkiKrosah

    KalkiKrosah

    11
    May 2, 2018
    That looks pretty cool. Not sure why more knives aren't like this. I'm no knife maker but I would think that this type of design would be easier to make on the labor end of things. And the possibility of the knife being an integral handle would be obtainable with this design too. The metal lockbar isn't take up a lot of real estate on the handle either, so the user would know just by the texture on their fingers whether they were close to the lockbar or not. Great design. What knife is this if you don't mind me asking?
     
  15. afishhunter

    afishhunter

    Oct 21, 2014
    This is incorrect.
    Most new knives sold are a slipjoint.
    Locking blades are illegal in many, if not most parts of the world.
    Victorinox sells more knives in a year (not counting their kitchen cutlery line) than the combined yearly production of most of the other manufacturers.
     
  16. jbmonkey

    jbmonkey with special platinum powers Platinum Member

    Jun 9, 2011
    if ya look back at the modern history of frame locks. titanium was very popular for the lock bar side. coupled with a steel liner and g10 topper scale and other variations of toppers. on liner locks emerson on his liner locks used to use titanium liners then switched to lock bar side titanium only and steel as the other liner. as carbon fiber came into play slapping a carbon fiber on the other side filled a consumer demand for titanium frame lock with a newer other side frame. a lot of people seem to like titanium and carbon fiber, so there ya go.....
     
  17. KalkiKrosah

    KalkiKrosah

    11
    May 2, 2018
    Yup. Frame lock would be harder to do with full CF scales, but liner lock I think would be doable. Not sure why so many CF knives opt for a frame lock design and swap half the carbon fiber to do so when a liner lock would allow for more carbon fiber on the exterior.
     
  18. AF

    AF Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 14, 2000
    Bolster locks or sub frame locks seem like they're becoming more popular. Reate is about to release the Crossroads.
    For full CF in a liner lock, check out the Viper Orso.
     
  19. microbe

    microbe

    215
    Apr 6, 2016
    That's not how it works. CF knives do not opt for a frame lock and swap half the carbon fiber?
    Titanium frame lock knife desigs opt for a CF scale for aesthetics and weight savings. And frame locks are on a popular ride for a while now. Liner locks not so much.
     
  20. Peter Hartwig

    Peter Hartwig Gold Member Gold Member

    Feb 29, 2008
    It's all a matter of preferences. Some like liner locks, some like framelocks ,some one of the other locking mechanism. You can find dual scale CF on linerlocks, but it may not be on the lower priced knives, which tend to use G10. I believe CF is both a higher priced material and harder to work with. CRK does a CF inlay on their framelocks
     

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