Why aren’t they contented just being “respected” knife makers?

Boats

Boats

Joined
Aug 7, 2003
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3,330
The knife industry, if one looks upon it charitably, attracts more than its fair share, of “characters.” If one is being uncharitable about the phenomenon, the knife industry attracts more than its fair share of probable, if not outright, hucksters.

Why does there seem to be a need for many in the industry to inflate their credentials, military or otherwise, and not just rely upon the reputation garnered by their wares?

Just off of the top of my head, the more famous examples of “would you buy a knife from this guy?” include:

A portly man who stars in his own martial arts videos, apparently as a warrior whose only angular features, or “edge,” as it were, are those found on his knives.

A former child genius/weapons designer/covert international man of mystery in the shadow of the CIA, whose biography is called non-fiction by his ghostwriter. Hell, he was Dr. Evil long before that poseur Mike Myers was.

A former Ranger, who, depending on whom you believe, is or is not a Ranger, who may or may not be legally named changed in honor of another Ranger found in The Lord of the Rings trilogy, who may have been deployed overseas in the mid-90s or may have been serving time in federal prison for a carjacking. This gentleman has had the dubious honor of having been investigated, in all probability, by other gentlemen in the industry with apparently little or no background integrity of their own.

So, dear reader, what the hell is up this phenomenon in your view? Should it matter if someone claims to be something they are not if their hardware meets with your approval? By that same token, does someone’s “creative biographical marketing” cancel out virtues of their product?

Also, does one have to have served in combat, taken Africa’s big five, scaled Everest, trekked Siberia, or performed some other “gee whiz, YOU’VE never done that” feat in order to make an excellent knife?

I hardly think so, but maybe I just don’t get the appeal of buying from a “been there done that,” even if they haven’t, really, in any provable way.
 
Very good question, my friend.

I had a friend who was a knifemaker and smith for over 50 years, never served in the military or scaled mt. Everest. He did hunt though and loved to be out in the crisp fall weather after a nice deer. He never went to africa for the big five though. What he did do, was to put everything he had into making the best knife he could. He never stopped looking for a way to make a better knife, and was always experimenting with different kinds of steel, forging methods and such. He never took any shortcuts, but most of all he had a belief that you should never lie to a customer, and never speak ill of other knifemakers. He passed away last winter from complications of colon cancer, but in his lifetime he saw his knives go for thousands of dollars because of the demand for his knives. But he was always a modest man.

His name was Bill Moran, and as modest as he was, one of his knives sell for many times what a dozen knives from one of those soldier of fortune types with all they hype.

Good question, boats.
 
I think you just hear about the fringe more then the center. For every character you hear about there's probably 20 "quiet" ones.

It easier to sell using hype or lies then cult rather then perfromance and letting knives speak for themselves.
 
Should it matter what a persons history is? no. should it matter if he can make a very dependable, useful, aestheticly pleasing knife? yes, undoubtedly.

Is it unfortunate that a certain person spoused a slightly different version of their military background and everyone (especially mr CIA spook) jumped quick to tear them apart? yes.

Said person still makes a hell of a knife, and his background means little to me, though I admit it did at first, 4 years later his knives still work perfectly for me, and my EDC is barely scratched. That is enough for me.
 
I think that the "creative biographical content" serves to market to the mall-ninja / airsoft-assassin / "check out the BLOOD GROOVES on my new knife!" market. Personally, I like a knife not because of the maker, but because of how it suits my cutting needs.

Having said that, I will consider the maker because there are lots of people making good knives out there, and if all other things are equal, I'd rather buy a knife made by someone who's never committed a premeditated violent felony than one who has (for example). I've read Jerry Busse and Sal Glesser's posts here in BF, and they both seem like people who, were I to disagree with, I would be able to have a mutually-respectful discussion with. Many of their fans (whether Hogs or Holethumbers) also seem to be pretty reasonable most of the time. Were I given a choice of two equivalent knives, one from one of these men, and one from some pseudo-wunderkind who's bio reads like Dark Ops ad copy, it's an easy choice.
 
Believe me DT, when I say I can see it from your perspective. For years I had a personal boycott against Toshiba because they had sold secret dual use naval technology to the Soviets during the Cold War. Lo and behold, decades later, they build the very TV I wanted. I had to assess whether I was going to continue "punishing" the corporation for its past sins or put aside what I had come to regard as "the principle of the matter."

Insofar as Mick Strider is apparently into repairing any past misconceptions about his biography, intentioned or not, it is probably not fair to punish an entire American company that produces mostly world class product, over his personal lapses in judgement concerning his biography.

Now, of course, all he'd have to do is make a knife I want for me to really have to reassess. Hasn't happened yet of course.

As for my other two exemplars? They are probably irredeemable.;)
 
DaveH said:
I expect several new people to register any minute now....
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Maybe, but perhaps not. All of those mentioned above have "foot soldiers," on the internet. Fortunately their toughness, intelligence, and lifespans, are on par with the mayfly.:D
 
Boats,

kudos man. A few of you hear are very helpful and courteous and are some great people, I just cant stand to hear the same BS every day about my favorite knifemaker of choice without saying something myself.

Those of you who act like its a totally fair deal that Strider can be openly derided without having a voice speak up in the matter are.... entitled to your opinion, but when somone disagrees with you, you should probably agree to disagree, not personally attack them, call them newbs, airsoft assasins (that is a pretty funny name though) mall ninjas etc.


and if you review my post history, I detest most "tactical" knives and "blood grooves" etc on a knife, especially the ones with preposterous "blood grooves" that serve no function.
 
roughedges said:
I agree. Heaven forbid anyone discusses claims made by public figures in the public domain. :rolleyes: Things like that should be strictly forbidden! :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
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Fair to discuss, but dont expect that everyone will share your opinion with totally open arms, and when they express that opinion, try not to call them names, it makes you look silly.
 
What boggles my mind is the rabid responses some people have when their favorite knife maker is insulted. Granted, my favorite makers are "regular guy" types without much controversy in their lives, but if somebody said Dozier (or his knives for instance) sucked, I would disagree but hardly care at all. I wonder if it's a certain personality type that are attracted to a particular kind of knife? Might make an interesting psychological study.

darkestthicket said:
Those of you who act like its a totally fair deal that Strider can be openly derided without having a voice speak up in the matter are.... entitled to your opinion...
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Don't forget, Mr. Strider is not banned. Although if I were him I'd just ignore it too.
 
The main history I'm concerned with as far as makers go, is their past history with previous customers. I'd personally rather buy a knife from someone that has a history of working, as they probably have the best idea of what and everyday user needs to have.
 
I think that people should be honest about themselves, even more so when you are marketing and advertising a product that you manufacture..
I suppose it could fall under deception and false advertising if they chose to do otherwise. Also for those that claim to have been involved in certain areas of service (rangers, seals, or other spec op groups ) and were not actually in those elite groups, not only is it lying but it takes away from those that have EARNED a spot in these branches of service.. I really think that this does have an attraction for the mall ninjas or what ever.. The people that are really going to use a knife in the manner that some are advertised (spec ops, martial arts etc) aren't going to buy into this kind of advertising crap.. JMO
 
TorzJohnson said:
What boggles my mind is the rabid responses some people have when their favorite knife maker is insulted. Granted, my favorite makers are "regular guy" types without much controversy in their lives, but if somebody said Dozier (or his knives for instance) sucked, I would disagree but hardly care at all. I wonder if it's a certain personality type that are attracted to a particular kind of knife? Might make an interesting psychological study.


Don't forget, Mr. Strider is not banned. Although if I were him I'd just ignore it too.
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I never said he was banned, he no longer comes here, he has made that clear in several posts here and elsewhere. If no one is going to say anything rational on Strider's behalf, I will. I generally like this forum well ahead of any other, but days like today suck @$%.
 
I believe one of the striders has been banned in the past.

If you study the history of knives, you'll find this type of hype and huskerism is part of the culture. Has been for over a hundred years.
 
darkestthicket said:
I never said he was banned, he no longer comes here, he has made that clear in several posts here and elsewhere. If no one is going to say anything rational on Strider's behalf, I will. I generally like this forum well ahead of any other, but days like today suck @$%.
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I realize you never said he was banned. You claimed that he "doesn't have a voice to speak up" - as if he were somehow prevented from defending himself. Here, let me repeat your quote again:

darkestthicket said:
Those of you who act like its a totally fair deal that Strider can be openly derided without having a voice speak up in the matter are.... entitled to your opinion...
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I merely informed you that he is not banned and therefore DOES have a voice to speak up in the matter.
 
Way to grasp at straws and totally overlook what im trying to say. great job.

edit : he doesnt post here, so please tell me how he voices his views if he NO LONGER POSTS HERE?
 
darkestthicket said:
Way to grasp at straws and totally overlook what im trying to say. great job.

edit : he doesnt post here, so please tell me how he voices his views if he NO LONGER POSTS HERE?
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Here's how: He begins posting again. Don't feel bad that you couldn't figure that out, I have amazing problem-solving powers far beyond the abilities of normal men.
 
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