Why aren't there more linerless folders?

L

lokiman123

BANNED
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
128
When I think of a folder I think of a slicer... nuff said? no... if i want a hard use knife i'm going to reach for a fixed blade 99.9999999 percent of the time. Spyderco, Al Mar, Sog and a couple others seem to understand this; but, why aren't there more? I've read countless posts by people saying this and that about folders sans liners and that they would never consider using them hard or in a defensive scenario.

I have not come across one linerless model from the above companies that I would think twice about using hard or defensively (in terms of any folder linerless or not).

So, after this short rant... Why aren't more companies trying to lessen the weight in our pockets? I don't know about you; but, I carry a folder because I don't need the more stout package of a fixed blade to cut apples/cheese, to open envelopes, or even cut down cardboard boxes.

It's crazy to think that some companies 3" blade folders weigh at or above 3 oz sometimes. That's the size weight I use for a pyramid sinker surf fishing for pompano.

Am I alone on these thoughts?
 
I would expect that making a folder with liners is easier than simply going linerless, as it forms a "skeleton blueprint." Only linerless folder I've heard of is the Ka-Bar Dozier, which is super light. Pretty good user too.
 
Some companies do full liners for clips and such. 4 way clips into FRN is hard to do. (Spyderco uses G-10/FRN with an increased fiberglass content though.... :D )

I love my Military. 4" blade, 4oz in pocket. Dual nested liners. That's a folder made the right way. :thumbup:
 
I prefer skeletonized stainless liners. the added weight is a non issue for me, I wouldn't notice such a small difference. I do however notice the improved rigidity of a knife with steel liners, and that is more important to me than a half ounce. I also find it reassuring to know that the screws, pins, pivots, and other hardware anchor to or pass through a steel liner not just a piece of plastic. On its own a liner is a thin and flexible piece of metal, but separated by spacers and bolted together they form a very strong, rigid frame. Carrying a fixed blade is very impractical for most of us and outright impossible/illegal for others, and in such cases a sturdy overbuilt folding knife is the next best thing.

Edit: On a side note, the S30v Spyderco Native is linerless and very light.
 
Last edited:
Liners generally do add some structural rigidity to FRN, and if they're skeletonized they add very little weight.
It's a tradeoff that many seem to favor.

If the liners are not skeletonized, though, you can end up with a knife that's uncomfortably heavy for EDC.

For example, a Benchmade 710 without liners just wouldn't be as solid a knife.
The fact that the liners are skeletonized brings the weight to about 4.5 ounces, relatively light for such a large knife.

One of the reasons it's rightfully a classic.


(I see that Sevorius has already made the point I wanted to make as I was writing this...:cool:)
 
Last edited:
The spyderco salt knives also don't have liners IIRC.

They try to make them as rustproof as possible.
 
I'm just the opposite loki. I will not have a folder that doesn't have liners, and thick liners at that!:D I used to rant about why makers would make a knife without liners in it.....guess they musta' heard me if you can't find any!:D;)

Btw, the handles are the liners on a sebbie!:)
 
I have thoughts about this myself. There is a lot to like about liner less knives in my opinon. Weight does not make a strong knife but proper construction does. I have an A.G.Russell Featherlite folder that is a liner less folder and weighs less than 2 oz. but will handle just about any chore I need to use it for. The earlier Spyderco Delica and Endura were liner less. I have had some folders over the years that did not have liners. Years ago I had a Gerber LST which had no liners. I also have a Fallkniven U2 and it does not have any liners. A metal liner is necessary for a clip to be secure but the Gerber and Fallkniven have no clips and the Spyderco clips were intergal clips made from Zytel and part of the handles. A folder makes a bad pry bar and most cutting with folders should be in a straight line. In emergency you do what is required to handle the problem. I like light and slim and right now I am EDCing a Spyderco UKPK and an Urban. These knives have no liners and I think they will handle anything I need. In fact they seem very strong. But a folder is not a pry bar, chisel are a chopper. Use the proper tool for the job. Just my opinions from what I have learned from using knives for over 50 years.

RKH
 
As already mentnioned, the AG Russell FeatherLite is linerless and it's a knife he notes that he carries a lot. I like linerless knives and actually carry one made by Thad Buchanan some years back. Light, sharp and good looking. I also believe (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong here) that the Spyderco Military and Para do not have liners...and they hold up to some pretty tough work around my house.
 
I like liners and metal backspacers. If a metal backspacer isn't feasible, then just liners is good enough.
 
sometimes liners are required by the locking system: can you imagine an axis bar travelling back & forth on FRN ??

but I see your point, most knifemakers take skeletonized liners for granted
I sometimes wish R&D departments would come up with some good linerless stuff, but obviously that would be nearly impossible in a market that demands liners ....

Gargs said:
I also believe (and I'm sure I'll be corrected if I'm wrong here) that the Spyderco Military and Para do not have liners...
Click to expand...
yes, they have
minimal liners yes, but they are there
 
It's a matter of compromises & longevity. IIRC, the biggest complaint about the older Spyderco Delicas/Enduras & SOG Flashes, is that they develop blade play. FRN, zytel & other manmade composite material develop more wear & more tolerances (Hence blade-play).

A Sebenza doesn't have liners, but it's a frame-lock, that's a different animal. Skeletonized liners are a way to give more strength to the handle w/o the weight gain. That's also why Ti is sometimes used, light weight. Personally, certain knives with even skeletonized liners can have too much flex. While the mini-Grip is fine, I personally experience too much flex for my tastes while using a full size BM Grip. Of course, it's just my observations, you might be different.

The SOG Flash are lightweight knives that aren't bad, but I seem to recall them developing blade play over time.
 
CL01 said:
A Sebenza doesn't have liners, but it's a frame-lock, that's a different animal. that aren't bad, but I seem to recall them developing blade play over time.
Click to expand...

What about a light weight framelock? Seems the way to go doesn't it?:confused:
 
It's all about grip materials and the lock. FRN is too flexible to support what makers think would be the more extreme uses. Although the OP might go to a fixed blade for a tough job, many don't, and they set the standard of use. Sorry.

With a titanium framelock you get about a close as you can. The Opinel ring lock does it, too.
 
3Guardsmen said:
I think they're all trying to do that, especially when you consider that we tend to carry our wallets in our pockets.;)

Regards,
3G
Click to expand...

I’ve seen significant weight savings here…:D

Seriously though, I have a delica 3 that’s been in my edc rotation for a long time and I’ve never had any problems with it. I also have a cold steel voyager and gunsite and a SOG flash I and II and have never had any problems ( aside from me screwing up the pivot on my flash I) with the knives.

That being said I like liners so long as they don’t add to much weight to the knife, I may never need the extra strength but its nice to know its there.
 
Why aren't more companies making linerless folders? Since they are in the game to make money, I'd guess they makes what sells the best.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top