But keeping with the FB BSA thought process. With the exception of Philmont I have not found a policy from BSA national HQ banning FB knives. I know most councils and districts have implemented this policy though. The reasons given are many and varied but the truth remains that a BSA camillus or a 2-3 layer SAK is the only knife most scouts will ever need. Use an axe or a saw as appropiate and the need for a large FB goes way down. It is the same reason most military types discover they use a multitool or folder far more often than they ever use the big FB strapped to their gear. Yeah, it looks macho but .......
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Why bring a folder into the woods?
- Thread starter Hang_them_later
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batosai117
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True, I've never done anything in scouting that my scout camilus couldn't handle. We were taught to do things the "smart" way by keeping the big knife or axe from having to be used. A SAK and a saw is pretty much all you need in scouting, that's what I was taught, and through my experience that is all I've ever needed. I still carry my emerson commander with me everywhere, but before my knife guru days it was always a SAK. And to bring up Philmont, my crew leaders tried to keep the weight down as much as possible by telling us to use small lightweight multi-tools. Looking back now seeing as we were in bear and big cat country, I would definately take a good knife with me if I were to go back.
Almost forgot about the council policies. Since my troop was based out of a city, we weren't able to carry around fixed blades, so the habit stuck with us when we went camping. Our leaders used multi-tools, so we did the same. Unfortunately (or maybe luckily for my wallet) that habit is still with me as all I carry are folders now, a lot more high priced than my scouting days, but still folders.
Torm said:
I agree that a decent sheath makes it unlikely, but, having fallen off horses, fallen down embankments and jumped out of airplanes, I believe a folder to be safer. If the hilt of you knife hits a solid object during your fall, you weight can push the blade through the sheath.
I must admit that while a fighter pilot in Vietnam, I carried a fixed blade (USMC Bolo) under my g-suit, hoping that the round tip and riveted sheath would protect me if I had to bail out. Having gone through USAF Jungle Survival, I decided that my Randall #1 was not heavy enough for me to clear a path with if I had to.
Why carry a folder in the woods?
With the exception of when I'm in bed or in the shower, I ALWAYS have a folder with me.
And I usually have a SAK or multi-tool as well (mostly because the non-cutting tools are very handy).
I could get along fine with just the SAK or multi-tool, but what can I say....I love knives!
These can easily handle all of the fieldcraft/hunting/survival tasks that I have ever encountered.
A fixed-blade would just be another piece of gear to lug around....and not really any more useful than the blades I'm already carrying.
Once upon a time (when I was a teenager), I carried fixed-blades in the woods too; but over the years I've learned better.
Experience has taught me that the fixed-blades were really no more useful than my folders and multi-tools.
Inveriably, they're too small for any real chopping, yet overkill for common tasks.
IMO, most fixed-blades are a rather poor choice.
In fact, I believe that most fixed-blades are really just a holdover from the days when men carried fixed-blades as weapons first and foremost.
A "security blanket" of sorts.
But I prefer my "security blanket" to be one that fires a bullet.
With the exception of when I'm in bed or in the shower, I ALWAYS have a folder with me.
And I usually have a SAK or multi-tool as well (mostly because the non-cutting tools are very handy).
I could get along fine with just the SAK or multi-tool, but what can I say....I love knives!
These can easily handle all of the fieldcraft/hunting/survival tasks that I have ever encountered.
A fixed-blade would just be another piece of gear to lug around....and not really any more useful than the blades I'm already carrying.
Once upon a time (when I was a teenager), I carried fixed-blades in the woods too; but over the years I've learned better.
Experience has taught me that the fixed-blades were really no more useful than my folders and multi-tools.
Inveriably, they're too small for any real chopping, yet overkill for common tasks.
IMO, most fixed-blades are a rather poor choice.
In fact, I believe that most fixed-blades are really just a holdover from the days when men carried fixed-blades as weapons first and foremost.
A "security blanket" of sorts.
But I prefer my "security blanket" to be one that fires a bullet.
batosai117
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- Jun 5, 2007
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- 5,463
Why carry a folder in the woods?
With the exception of when I'm in bed or in the shower, I ALWAYS have a folder with me.
And I usually have a SAK or multi-tool as well (mostly because the non-cutting tools are very handy).
I could get along fine with just the SAK or multi-tool, but what can I say....I love knives!
These can easily handle all of the fieldcraft/hunting/survival tasks that I have ever encountered.
A fixed-blade would just be another piece of gear to lug around....and not really any more useful than the blades I'm already carrying.
QUOTE]
I do that too, I keep my knife with me ALL the time except for in the shower and when I'm asleep, and that doesn't mean that it's more than three feet away from me when I do either one of those things.
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There is no policy banning fixed blades in the BSA. There is, however, a widespread misinterpretation of the policy below:
Reference: Health and Safety Guide, No. 34415
Knives
A sharp pocketknife with a can opener on it is an invaluable backcountry tool. Keep it clean, sharp, and handy. Avoid large sheath knives. They are heavy and awkward to carry, and unnecessary for most camp chores except for cleaning fish. Since its inception, Boy Scouting has relied heavily on an outdoor program to achieve its objectives. This program meets more of the purposes of Scouting than any other single feature. We believe we have a duty to instill in our members, youth and adult, the knowledge of how to use, handle, and store legally owned knives with the highest concern for safety and responsibility.
Rememberknives are not allowed on school premises, nor can they be taken aboard commercial aircraft.
References: Boy Scout Handbook, Fieldbook, Bear Cub Scout Book, and Wolf Cub Scout Book
Scouts should be familiar with and carry all types of knives. Axes can pose far more safety issues than most fixed blades. I think the Buck 102 is tailor made for Boy Scouting.
GB
When I go mountain biking, and I'm not wearing a pack or buttpack, I only bring folders- a tactical clipped to my right front pocket for fast access, a multi-tool (not really for the knife), and the Leatherman Micra (a couple of the tools are very useful in case I need to fix or adjust the bike, and the small blade is good for sliceing). I will carry a pocket chainsaw (formerly a Commando wire saw) in case a downed limb or something needs to be cleared. A fixed blade really isn't necesary then, and would only get in my way. I have thought about bringing my sheffield utility knife as well- In case I need to cut off a FUBAR'd tire and tube again- doing it kills an edge quick. But I don't- I figure I can use one of the other blades and simply resharpen it later like I did before.
Of course, I lie folders all around. I just do. They outnumber my fixed blaeds by a many. When I carry both, the fixed blades get reserved for "hard use", food prep and doing fish/game. They sometimes also perform mundane tasks too. My folders will more often than not be SAKs or traditionals under these circumstances.
Of course, I lie folders all around. I just do. They outnumber my fixed blaeds by a many. When I carry both, the fixed blades get reserved for "hard use", food prep and doing fish/game. They sometimes also perform mundane tasks too. My folders will more often than not be SAKs or traditionals under these circumstances.
I guess my point with the reference to the 110 embodied several previously mentioned reasons: familiarity, utility, etc. I simply say that for most of my 'woods-stomping', a Buck 110 has been 'sufficient'. It was the culmination of my progression from an always-dull SAK to a Buck 301 Stockman, which 'slipped' often enough to get me a few times, to the 110 - which has been 'sufficient'.
Of course, that didn't stop me from progressing from it to a fixed blade #192 Vanguard - and then to my current choice, a BRK&T 'Huntsman' in a pocket sheath. Progress for progress sake - not dictated by need. The 110 was 'sufficient'.
Stainz
Of course, that didn't stop me from progressing from it to a fixed blade #192 Vanguard - and then to my current choice, a BRK&T 'Huntsman' in a pocket sheath. Progress for progress sake - not dictated by need. The 110 was 'sufficient'.
Stainz
batosai117
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BATONING the axe through logs? What a dumb idea! In my troop we were permitted to actually swing the axe-and its a helpful skill. I'll have to look into the FB thing though. (Btw, I got my Eagle in June, and continue to be an adult leader in that troop, so this is some very nice info to have. Thanks:thumbup
Congradulations on making Eagle, follow this link and anybody else that has made Eagle and is reading this. There is a special knife from Buck just for Eagle scouts, just read on.
http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=508904
Yeah i always have a SAK or multi on me as well.
However the OP further clarified the issue by excluding SAK/multis from the equation. By folder he means single bladed folding knife.
Barring a zombie-apocalypse or TEOTWAWKI an axe coupled with a SAK or Multitool would be sufficient for most things.
I really like single bladed folders but still for me if you could have only one folding pocket knife i would still go with a SAK/multi.
I really like single bladed folders but still for me if you could have only one folding pocket knife i would still go with a SAK/multi.
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- Dec 5, 2005
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From above...
"Its the minority of outdoor purposes you should be worried about.
Skam"
Perhaps, but this is a sentiment that is shared on this forum and others like it. It is not a sentiment that is shared by the general population.
The general population packs up the family wagon for a weekend of car camping at the nearby campground. It's just for the weekend, and they have the car if things get bad. For them a folder is more than sufficient.
The general population day hikes in the heavily trafficed state park. They're only going to be out for a few hours, on designated trails, and there are plenty of other people around. For them a folder is more than sufficient.
The general population goes out into the Sierra Nevadas in November in shirt sleeves to cut down a christmas tree, with little regard to where they are or future weather reports. It's only an hour from the house, they've done it every year- or know people that have- and they are driving an SUV, so a folder is more than sufficient.
Skammer, you've said before that you do SAR work, so you should know that the general public plans outdoor activities like nothing bad could ever happen. When nothing bad can happen, a folder is more than sufficient.
My personal belief is that given- a set of circumstances, level of knowledge, and personal bearing- the gear one chooses could be the difference and I pack accordingly. "Its great for the price" only is a factor if "It's great" applies unqualified.
If you break a piece of gear, it does not necessarily mean that you did not have enough knowledge, or were somehow not mentally up to the task. It could mean that you had second rate gear.
The boy scout motto is "Be Prepared." When i was a scout, our troop had a sub-motto that was "when all else fails, improvise." I've found that is easier to be prepared than it is to improvise.
"Its the minority of outdoor purposes you should be worried about.
Skam"
Perhaps, but this is a sentiment that is shared on this forum and others like it. It is not a sentiment that is shared by the general population.
The general population packs up the family wagon for a weekend of car camping at the nearby campground. It's just for the weekend, and they have the car if things get bad. For them a folder is more than sufficient.
The general population day hikes in the heavily trafficed state park. They're only going to be out for a few hours, on designated trails, and there are plenty of other people around. For them a folder is more than sufficient.
The general population goes out into the Sierra Nevadas in November in shirt sleeves to cut down a christmas tree, with little regard to where they are or future weather reports. It's only an hour from the house, they've done it every year- or know people that have- and they are driving an SUV, so a folder is more than sufficient.
Skammer, you've said before that you do SAR work, so you should know that the general public plans outdoor activities like nothing bad could ever happen. When nothing bad can happen, a folder is more than sufficient.
My personal belief is that given- a set of circumstances, level of knowledge, and personal bearing- the gear one chooses could be the difference and I pack accordingly. "Its great for the price" only is a factor if "It's great" applies unqualified.
If you break a piece of gear, it does not necessarily mean that you did not have enough knowledge, or were somehow not mentally up to the task. It could mean that you had second rate gear.
The boy scout motto is "Be Prepared." When i was a scout, our troop had a sub-motto that was "when all else fails, improvise." I've found that is easier to be prepared than it is to improvise.
TLR
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- 1,574
My current wilderness carry is
ratweiler chopper
F1
CF BG42 Spydie Millie
Why the folding knife?
One reason is that when I am wearing my packs with waist belts I do not wear a sheathed knife on my pants belt as it is in the way and haven't figured out a good way to attach a sheath to a padded waist belt on the pack to my satisfaction. My fixed blades are generally attached to the outside of my pack, therefore with my pack on my folder is easiest to get to. Also if I take my pack off I still have a knife on me as my folder is in a pocket.
Many times I wear nylon pants that have no belt loops particularly after getting to my location and setting up camp. I therefore carry my folder in a pocket or IWB.
ratweiler chopper
F1
CF BG42 Spydie Millie
Why the folding knife?
One reason is that when I am wearing my packs with waist belts I do not wear a sheathed knife on my pants belt as it is in the way and haven't figured out a good way to attach a sheath to a padded waist belt on the pack to my satisfaction. My fixed blades are generally attached to the outside of my pack, therefore with my pack on my folder is easiest to get to. Also if I take my pack off I still have a knife on me as my folder is in a pocket.
Many times I wear nylon pants that have no belt loops particularly after getting to my location and setting up camp. I therefore carry my folder in a pocket or IWB.
For the puposes of this thread sure a decent folder is of great use. I dont trust the public to make any decent decisions at all. When I teach the public I am reminded why I teach them as for the most par they havent a clue about being prepared.
When I talk about knives I run through the pros and cons of different styles. Many go on extended trips with a key chain mini folder which is not acceptable. A decent blade is in the same level of importance as fire starting and signalling. When talking about knives it becomes clear to them there is a real time and place for a stout fixed blade knife.
A quality folder is indespensable if its needed but they have their limitations. Its these limitations that many people do no realize as they think a folder is the be all end all of outdoor utility.
I carry a folder for day hikes myself but then I am highly trained whereas most of the public is not. Its all about trade offs and what risks you take making them. Minimizing your exposure to risk with knowledge and quality gear is the key.
Skam
I've said it before, and I'll say it again....
Given your knowledge is decent you will go further with better odds with a decent fixed blade that wont break.
Skam
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- Dec 5, 2005
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Yes, given the same level of knowledge and bearing, a person with overbuilt equipment stands a better chance that a person with the minimum of sufficiency under ideal circumstances.
Given the option of being a person possessing knowledge and quality equipment; or a person possessing knowledge and "a great deal"... I prefer the former and not the latter.
Great gear won't necessarily make up for a lack of knowledge, but it sure can make that knowledge go further.
Given the option of being a person possessing knowledge and quality equipment; or a person possessing knowledge and "a great deal"... I prefer the former and not the latter.
Great gear won't necessarily make up for a lack of knowledge, but it sure can make that knowledge go further.
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- Jan 13, 2006
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- 116
Hi guys! Thank you for posting! Maybe I have to buy some more folders after all.
These are the folders I already own:
Doug Ritter RSK Mk1
Doug Ritter MINI RSK Mk1
Benchmade 721
I have all the motivation I need:
1) Cause I can
2) Completeness
3) Back up
4) Folder main user, fixed blade or axe/chopper back up
5) Personal preference
6) I always carry it anyway
7) A fixed blade makes people nervous even in the wood!
8) It's an old friend
9) It's lighter
10) It is the perfect tool for every day use even in the woods
11) Improve the odds of getting home in one piece
12) Large SAK with saw prefferred before a Mora
13) You can never carry too many knives
14) Boy scouts are not allowed to carry fixed blades (!!?)
15) Compactness important even in the woods
16) Sheaths other than wide mouth pouch types are awkward to resheath
17) folders are just more convenient for most jobs
18) I can't think of a time I ever needed a fixed blade
19) I can't have some long huge fixed blade hanging from my waist, and flapping all over the place.
20) I am a Boy Scout Leader and I like to set the right example for the boys.
I think a fixed blade is unnessesary and unsafe for most purposes.
21) Familiarity.
22) there's room enough in my heart and in the woods for both....(A fixed blade and a folder)
23) you really don't even need a sheath for them
24) a fixed blade can be a hassle legally and socially
25) Because thay are small, lightweight usefull tools
26) that fixed blade may go through the sheath and do you serious harm
27) fixed blades to dangerous to have if you fall off your horse
28) Why not?
29) most fixed-blades are a rather poor choice.
30) (a folder) is safer to carry (as the blade is kept within the handle when not in use)
I tried to make the list more compact:
Habit
1 6 28
Redundance (Back up for a fixed blade)
2 3 11
Preference
4 5 10 12 16 17 18 19 23 25 29
Fear (of fixed blades)
7 14 20 24 26 27 30
Love (of folders)
8 13 21 22
Size
9 15
But I would still feel naked without a fixed blade in the woods.
These are the folders I already own:
Doug Ritter RSK Mk1
Doug Ritter MINI RSK Mk1
Benchmade 721
I have all the motivation I need:
1) Cause I can
2) Completeness
3) Back up
4) Folder main user, fixed blade or axe/chopper back up
5) Personal preference
6) I always carry it anyway
7) A fixed blade makes people nervous even in the wood!
8) It's an old friend
9) It's lighter
10) It is the perfect tool for every day use even in the woods
11) Improve the odds of getting home in one piece
12) Large SAK with saw prefferred before a Mora
13) You can never carry too many knives
14) Boy scouts are not allowed to carry fixed blades (!!?)
15) Compactness important even in the woods
16) Sheaths other than wide mouth pouch types are awkward to resheath
17) folders are just more convenient for most jobs
18) I can't think of a time I ever needed a fixed blade
19) I can't have some long huge fixed blade hanging from my waist, and flapping all over the place.
20) I am a Boy Scout Leader and I like to set the right example for the boys.
I think a fixed blade is unnessesary and unsafe for most purposes.
21) Familiarity.
22) there's room enough in my heart and in the woods for both....(A fixed blade and a folder)
23) you really don't even need a sheath for them
24) a fixed blade can be a hassle legally and socially
25) Because thay are small, lightweight usefull tools
26) that fixed blade may go through the sheath and do you serious harm
27) fixed blades to dangerous to have if you fall off your horse
28) Why not?
29) most fixed-blades are a rather poor choice.
30) (a folder) is safer to carry (as the blade is kept within the handle when not in use)
I tried to make the list more compact:
Habit
1 6 28
Redundance (Back up for a fixed blade)
2 3 11
Preference
4 5 10 12 16 17 18 19 23 25 29
Fear (of fixed blades)
7 14 20 24 26 27 30
Love (of folders)
8 13 21 22
Size
9 15
But I would still feel naked without a fixed blade in the woods.