why buy a strop?

[bodog]

Aside from aesthetics, why is there so much emphasis on buying a strop? Most of the time a compound is applied and that means almost anything can be used. I've used a piece of notebook paper and gotten great results though it wasn't very durable. Normally I use some thin cardboard, the kind that comes in new button shirts. I cut them up into two to three inch by about 8 inch strips, apply compound, and go to work. I spend no money on my strops aside from the compound itself. I use a flat piece of wood as a backing. If I want to I can make smaller strops and carry them in my wallet if I wanted to. I could use an old belt. I can cut up a pair of jeans and wrap it around the same piece of wood. I find the cardboard is the best, though. I use it until the paste is completely black and simply throw it away and make a new one which takes all of about 1 minute.

I can have strops running from 1000 grit up to 100,000 grit for just the price of the compound. Why spend 20 to 30 bucks per strop? They're easier to store, cheaper, and at least as effective. I normally run up to 14,000 grit and finish with simicrome and get mirror finished edges, although they could obviously be finished at a higher grit. The cardboard is already flat which leads to accurate bevels with no apex rounding.

So, I get really good results from my strops. Is there really any reason to spend so much money to buy a strop from someone else? I'm really curious. It doesn't make sense to me.

 

[Gadsden]

Maybe for no other reason than to compare to all of the other methods you use. Also a leather strop is a traditional way of sharpening if that has any value to you. In my experience I own three different brands of leather strops. I like to compare between them the results I can get in using them. The thickness of leather, the compounds on them, and feel of each one changes the more I use them. Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[awestib]

Aside from aesthetics, why is there so much emphasis on buying a strop? Most of the time a compound is applied and that means almost anything can be used. I've used a piece of notebook paper and gotten great results though it wasn't very durable. Normally I use some thin cardboard, the kind that comes in new button shirts. I cut them up into two to three inch by about 8 inch strips, apply compound, and go to work. I spend no money on my strops aside from the compound itself. I use a flat piece of wood as a backing. If I want to I can make smaller strops and carry them in my wallet if I wanted to. I could use an old belt. I can cut up a pair of jeans and wrap it around the same piece of wood. I find the cardboard is the best, though. I use it until the paste is completely black and simply throw it away and make a new one which takes all of about 1 minute.

I can have strops running from 1000 grit up to 100,000 grit for just the price of the compound. Why spend 20 to 30 bucks per strop? They're easier to store, cheaper, and at least as effective. I normally run up to 14,000 grit and finish with simicrome and get mirror finished edges, although they could obviously be finished at a higher grit. The cardboard is already flat which leads to accurate bevels with no apex rounding.

So, I get really good results from my strops. Is there really any reason to spend so much money to buy a strop from someone else? I'm really curious. It doesn't make sense to me.

Nothing wrong with it and I have used cardboard on wood attached with spray glue myself. Just many ways to skin a cat.

 

[stitchawl]

So, I get really good results from my strops. Is there really any reason to spend so much money to buy a strop from someone else? I'm really curious. It doesn't make sense to me.

You are absolutely correct that if one is using various compounds, you can also use various substrates effectively, and get differing results depending upon which substrate you use. Cardboard, denim, wood, felt, magazine covers (which work VERY well without compounds,) and a host of others.

But the short answer is 'Yes.' There 'can' be good reasons to buy a strop. (And remember... I'm the guy who always touts making one's own strop!)

A. If you want the very best shell Cordovan horsehide to be use without compounds, you usually need to buy it as a pre-made strop. It's extremely difficult to purchase shell Cordovan leather in small quantities to make your own strops. You can buy entire shells in large amounts from Horween Leather Company, but they won't sell just one shell. To get a strop made from this leather (which makes the #1 best strop to use bare,) you usually need to buy the strop pre-made from an old, established Shaving Equipment company, and pay $75-$125 for it.

B. If you are a craftsman who values his tools, treats them as 'old friends,' you might want a well-made leather strop. (The operative words being 'well made.') This is something that can be passed down to future generations as heirlooms for their use.

C. You might just be lazy, and not care about the results of your stropping as much as you care about the 'toys' you use for that. I have a friend who will constantly purchase the very newest and best items for all his hobbies. As soon as something new and 'trick' is put up for sale, he's ordered it! The fact that he hasn't mastered the USE of the older versions yet doesn't stop him. If it's 'new' and it's advertised as 'best,' he needs to have it. He has a Leica camera that sits proudly on his shelf, but I doubt he's taken more than a 100 photos with it. He know nothing about aperture nor depth of field. He spent weeks researching the best electric guitar, eventually refining his search to the best model of the best guitar, and bought it. But he can't play a song yet, and this is his second guitar. He bought the latest version of Photoshop, but has no idea how to correct an image with it. He can tell you all the technical specs of his computer, the most powerful I've seen, but does nothing with it except send e-mail and surf the Web. As long as he has the newest and the best, he's happy. Some people are happy buying what others tell them they need. And happy is good, too.


Stitchawl

 

[Clinto.]

You are absolutely correct that if one is using various compounds, you can also use various substrates effectively, and get differing results depending upon which substrate you use. Cardboard, denim, wood, felt, magazine covers (which work VERY well without compounds,) and a host of others.

But the short answer is 'Yes.' There 'can' be good reasons to buy a strop. (And remember... I'm the guy who always touts making one's own strop!)

A. If you want the very best shell Cordovan horsehide to be use without compounds, you usually need to buy it as a pre-made strop. It's extremely difficult to purchase shell Cordovan leather in small quantities to make your own strops. You can buy entire shells in large amounts from Horween Leather Company, but they won't sell just one shell. To get a strop made from this leather (which makes the #1 best strop to use bare,) you usually need to buy the strop pre-made from an old, established Shaving Equipment company, and pay $75-$125 for it.

B. If you are a craftsman who values his tools, treats them as 'old friends,' you might want a well-made leather strop. (The operative words being 'well made.') This is something that can be passed down to future generations as heirlooms for their use.

C. You might just be lazy, and not care about the results of your stropping as much as you care about the 'toys' you use for that. I have a friend who will constantly purchase the very newest and best items for all his hobbies. As soon as something new and 'trick' is put up for sale, he's ordered it! The fact that he hasn't mastered the USE of the older versions yet doesn't stop him. If it's 'new' and it's advertised as 'best,' he needs to have it. He has a Leica camera that sits proudly on his shelf, but I doubt he's taken more than a 100 photos with it. He know nothing about aperture nor depth of field. He spent weeks researching the best electric guitar, eventually refining his search to the best model of the best guitar, and bought it. But he can't play a song yet, and this is his second guitar. He bought the latest version of Photoshop, but has no idea how to correct an image with it. He can tell you all the technical specs of his computer, the most powerful I've seen, but does nothing with it except send e-mail and surf the Web. As long as he has the newest and the best, he's happy. Some people are happy buying what others tell them they need. And happy is good, too.


Stitchawl

Well said Stitchawl. That was a good read and it had damn good info.

 

[bodog]

You are absolutely correct that if one is using various compounds, you can also use various substrates effectively, and get differing results depending upon which substrate you use. Cardboard, denim, wood, felt, magazine covers (which work VERY well without compounds,) and a host of others.

But the short answer is 'Yes.' There 'can' be good reasons to buy a strop. (And remember... I'm the guy who always touts making one's own strop!)

A. If you want the very best shell Cordovan horsehide to be use without compounds, you usually need to buy it as a pre-made strop. It's extremely difficult to purchase shell Cordovan leather in small quantities to make your own strops. You can buy entire shells in large amounts from Horween Leather Company, but they won't sell just one shell. To get a strop made from this leather (which makes the #1 best strop to use bare,) you usually need to buy the strop pre-made from an old, established Shaving Equipment company, and pay $75-$125 for it.

B. If you are a craftsman who values his tools, treats them as 'old friends,' you might want a well-made leather strop. (The operative words being 'well made.') This is something that can be passed down to future generations as heirlooms for their use.

C. You might just be lazy, and not care about the results of your stropping as much as you care about the 'toys' you use for that. I have a friend who will constantly purchase the very newest and best items for all his hobbies. As soon as something new and 'trick' is put up for sale, he's ordered it! The fact that he hasn't mastered the USE of the older versions yet doesn't stop him. If it's 'new' and it's advertised as 'best,' he needs to have it. He has a Leica camera that sits proudly on his shelf, but I doubt he's taken more than a 100 photos with it. He know nothing about aperture nor depth of field. He spent weeks researching the best electric guitar, eventually refining his search to the best model of the best guitar, and bought it. But he can't play a song yet, and this is his second guitar. He bought the latest version of Photoshop, but has no idea how to correct an image with it. He can tell you all the technical specs of his computer, the most powerful I've seen, but does nothing with it except send e-mail and surf the Web. As long as he has the newest and the best, he's happy. Some people are happy buying what others tell them they need. And happy is good, too.


Stitchawl

Good post, thanks. Do these different substrates offer better finishes if using compound? I've used a couple of different substrates bare and a couple different with diapaste and don't see much difference between the two (bare vs bare and substrate with compound vs substrate with compound). I've not seen finishes with high grade kangaroo or horse hide. Seems like overkill to me but yeah, I've known dudes that wanted the best of the best too. You think that's what it's really mainly about or is it about people being sold something they don't need? I'm curious.

 

[HeavyHanded]

From my POV, the use of highest quality horsehide or purchased specialty hide strops only makes sense if used bare and the specific character of that treated hide is a proven performer. Also only if shooting for a very bright, clean finish.

Generally I use paper doped with the abrasive of the day and wrapped around a stone or Washboard. Since I make use of a lot of improvised compounds such as reclaimed mud from a waterstone, this approach makes the most sense for me. I also use very hard backings to get higher rates of stock removal and/or reconditioning, leading to more swarf loading up on the strop. I personally notice an improvement in results when using fresh compound on a fresh surface over repeatedly applying over a loaded one, another reason I prefer something more disposable. If I only used it for a few light passes following a lot of stone work, the use of finer grades or professionally treated leathers would make more sense. Also, some folks do not own much in the way of tools or time and so buying one is an attractive option.

I most often finish on plain paper, and will see a subtle difference based on the paper I'm using if if all are varieties of uncoated text weight stock. Makes sense that different leathers treated at different locations etc would display subtle changes at the least, and notable changes with the best examples.

 

[BellaBlades]

I always find a strop 100% necessary to complete that nasty edge that I love.

I made a few in the past, but the leather quality just did not work out as ideal as I hoped. So I picked one up from strop man.
All I need is the two sided strop with gray and green to finish it up. Huge difference IMO. And for 25$ I really cannot beat it. And it will last forever.

 

[Bludgeon]

OP has not tried strop from Knivesplus

 

[wtlj]

OP has not tried strop from Knivesplus

Darn...I keep hearing about that one! Is it magical or something? 😏

 

[stitchawl]

Good post, thanks. Do these different substrates offer better finishes if using compound? I've used a couple of different substrates bare and a couple different with diapaste and don't see much difference between the two (bare vs bare and substrate with compound vs substrate with compound). I've not seen finishes with high grade kangaroo or horse hide. Seems like overkill to me but yeah, I've known dudes that wanted the best of the best too. You think that's what it's really mainly about or is it about people being sold something they don't need? I'm curious.

Let me start by saying that what I'm about to write is my "opinion." Just that... anecdotal information based on my own observations.

First, the ONLY reasons to use expensive high quality shell Cordovan horsehide or kangaroo hide is that they both contain higher levels of natural silicates than other leathers. This, of course, means that if used with a compound it negates any benefit derived from these higher-cost leathers. Shell Cordovan horsehide should never be used with compounds. That would be like 'bronzing' your gold medal... Horsehide is the 'finishing touch' to the stropping process, the last 10-15 strokes made.

Next, the second reasoning behind using shell Cordavan horsehide is the natural density found in the 'shell' portion of the hide combined with the Cordovan processing it's put through, resulting in a leather than simply will not compress at all when using normal stropping pressures. Kangaroo hide tends to be more porous and so more care needs to be used when stropping with it to avoid rolling the apex.

So... combining the higher amounts of natural silicates (the smallest grit size found naturally) with a leather that doesn't compress at all, the result is a perfect 'finishing' strop. This is why barbers have been stropping their straight razors on well-processed horsehide for the last 300 years. For guys who make their living shaving 'repeat customers,' nothing has been found to work better. (Those old stops were made with horsehide processed as "Red Russian Leather," a process to costly to reproduce today. The closest approximation is the "Cordovan" process.)

As for sub-straights... we've all tried dozens of different things, and because our techniques vary, so do our results. One person prefers hardwood. Another prefers Balsa. The next guy like copy paper while his neighbor chooses shirt cardboard. Personally, when not using leather, I like to strop on expensive magazine covers... the real thick glossy ones. The firm paper combined with the clay used as a coating to create that glossy finish is a great stropping combination! Otherwise, a smooth piece of MDF with some diamond paste, a paint stirring stick with come CrO2.

Frankly, 'for me,' these are just experiments and toys. When I strop 'for real,' I use leather. I've worked leather for a lot of years... I know leather. I've lots of it around. I spent a hour or two one day making a dozen very well compressed leather strops, dedicating each to a different compound. Over the years I've stopped using all but 2-3 compounds so those extra strops just sit in to bottom of my knife closet along with another dozen strops I bought from 'HandAmerican' 15-20 years ago... and the variety of different compounds I bought as well. The old 'KISS' principle rules...


Stitchawl

 

[stitchawl]

OP has not tried strop from Knivesplus

568 words about their strop.
12 words to describe what they actually do to the leather, NONE of which mention anything about actually processing the leather for a strop.
Just about gluing it down and scraping it. I guess that's better than the company's that don't even mention that much, just talk about carefully sanding the wood base then staining and varnishing it.

The leather IS the strop.
This company says the leather they use is soft. Me? I want hard leather that won't compress when I strop!

Fortunately for this company, there are different strokes for different folks. I guess some like soft leather.


Stitchawl

 

[bflying]

I have lots of strops, both pro made, and home made. I end up using most of them for one reason or another. I've tried the leather on paint sticks, but I have better luck making paddles out of pieces of 1x3's. Glue up smooth side up on one side, and rough on the other. Then I mark them with what ever abrasive so I can keep continuity. Keep one clean, some with cbn emulsions, and others with various buffing compounds. Each metal is just a little different. But I will admit to finishing some edges out straight on a random opening of the yellow pages.

But long story longer, I always finish on a strop. It seems to be a step that takes a usable blade to a refined edge, no matter what stone grit level you stop on. Must admit though that other than the strops made specifically for a sharpening jig, (KME Etc), I prefer my own homemade versions.

If you don't want to make one, or pay prices from the pro shops, Tandy Leather sells a basic strop on paddle rough/smooth for something like $16 or so. Decent little things to get started.

 

[bodog]

I made a couple with some Tandy bare leather. I tried both smooth and rough side, with and without compound. I saw worse performance than simple cardboard. Eh, I guess that's where the whole YMMV comes from.

 

[stitchawl]

I made a couple with some Tandy bare leather. I tried both smooth and rough side, with and without compound. I saw worse performance than simple cardboard. Eh, I guess that's where the whole YMMV comes from.

Question: Did you process the Tandy leather in any way before you tried using it as a strop? (I don't mean 'did you glue it down.' I mean did you treat the leather itself to make it into something useful for a strop?)


Stitchawl

 

[bodog]

Tried flattening with a rolling pin, lightly sanding it, heavily sanding it, and applying a light layer of mineral oil prior to applying the compound. The only thing that even moderately worked was taking the smooth side and using some coarse grit sandpaper to rough it up just enough to hold a mixture of mineral oil and compound.

The rough side alone doesn't take the compound evenly, absorbs a lot of it, and finishes unevenly. The smooth side didn't hold the compound at all, it came right off leaving streaks of compound that didn't do anything. Letting it dry did nothing, it would just flake off.

I've tried 4 different leather strops made with different techniques and none of them are as simple and effective as grabbing a piece of denim or cardboard and using that. When i say that I mean denim and cardboard hold the compound in place, don't require a ton of the compound, leave nice, even finishes, and are flat and compressed enough to leave a fine apex with no rounding. And they're cheap, durable, replaceable, and easy to make yourself to whatever size you want and you can carry them with you on a day out or in your survival pack without adding much weight.

 

[Obsessed with Edges]

Tried flattening with a rolling pin, lightly sanding it, heavily sanding it, and applying a light layer of mineral oil prior to applying the compound. The only thing that even moderately worked was taking the smooth side and using some coarse grit sandpaper to rough it up just enough to hold a mixture of mineral oil and compound.

The rough side alone doesn't take the compound evenly, absorbs a lot of it, and finishes unevenly. The smooth side didn't hold the compound at all, it came right off leaving streaks of compound that didn't do anything. Letting it dry did nothing, it would just flake off.

I've tried 4 different leather strops made with different techniques and none of them are as simple and effective as grabbing a piece of denim or cardboard and using that. When i say that I mean denim and cardboard hold the compound in place, don't require a ton of the compound, leave nice, even finishes, and are flat and compressed enough to leave a fine apex with no rounding. And they're cheap, durable, replaceable, and easy to make yourself to whatever size you want and you can carry them with you on a day out or in your survival pack without adding much weight.

I've tried mineral oil with leather strops and haven't liked it; the oil makes it somewhat slick/sticky/gummy, and a wax-based stick/crayon compound will only be worse when mixed with the oil. The best results (on leather specifically) always came by sanding the smooth leather lightly enough to give it some 'nap', then applying the compound alone, with no mineral oil.

Having said that, I've also found denim/linen to be much easier to deal with, and with more effective results, when using compound on the strop. In fact, I peeled the leather off one of my oiled strops and 're-purposed' the oak block with denim.

My one 'best' leather strop is my leather belt, on which I applied powdered (dry) green compound on the rough side (inside face), and then rubbed some mineral oil-based hand lotion over the compound, just to keep the 'dust factor' to a minimum with the powdered compound. In that specific example, it's worked out very well when used as a hanging (barber-style) strop and is my favorite strop for simple steels like 1095, CV and 420HC.


David

 

[bodog]

I've tried mineral oil with leather strops and haven't liked it; the oil makes it somewhat slick/sticky/gummy, and a wax-based stick/crayon compound will only be worse when mixed with the oil. The best results (on leather specifically) always came by sanding the smooth leather lightly enough to give it some 'nap', then applying the compound alone, with no mineral oil.

Having said that, I've also found denim/linen to be much easier to deal with, and with more effective results, when using compound on the strop. In fact, I peeled the leather off one of my oiled strops and 're-purposed' the oak block with denim.

My one 'best' leather strop is my leather belt, on which I applied powdered (dry) green compound on the rough side (inside face), and then rubbed some mineral oil-based hand lotion over the compound, just to keep the 'dust factor' to a minimum with the powdered compound. In that specific example, it's worked out very well when used as a hanging (barber-style) strop and is my favorite strop for simple steels like 1095, CV and 420HC.


David

Glad I'm not the only one who thinks that way. I was wondering for awhile if I was.

 

[stitchawl]

Tried flattening with a rolling pin,

Did you case the leather (wet the leather well first, letting it dry a bit,) and then roll it?

The rough side alone doesn't take the compound evenly, absorbs a lot of it, and finishes unevenly.

Why do you believe that the leather needs to take the compound evenly? The compound works at microscopic levels, so there is really no need to completely coat the leather with a thick layer of compound. Actually, a few pea-sized pellets of bar compound rubbed over the surface of the strop is going to lay down more than enough abrasive to do the job. If you are using CrO2, just a light green 'haze' with the tan leather showing through will get the job done.

The smooth side didn't hold the compound at all, it came right off leaving streaks of compound that didn't do anything.

This really confuses me! I've never encountered vegetable tanned leather that didn't hold compound, even on the slickest sides! This was veg-tanned leather, right? Or was it latigo? Latigo leather is oil-filled after tanning. So is Harness leather. It would be hard to apply bar compound to either of them.

Letting it dry did nothing, it would just flake off.

... "flake" off? How thick a layer were you trying for?

I've tried 4 different leather strops made with different techniques ...

Were you trying different 'types' of leather?

I'll be the first to agree with you that it's easier to rub a bar compound onto denim or cardboard. Certainly easier than onto polished MDF board. But as compound IS an abrasive powerful enough to rub away steel, it's certainly powerful enough to embed itself into high polished softer surfaces even if we can't see it with the naked eye. Half a micron is impossible to see, but the results of it are not. If you doubt it, try just 'lightly' rubbing some compound over a hardwood surface, then strop a carbon steel knife 15-20 times and note the dark streaks. Believe me, it works. That's how I learned it works...
(Note: Do NOT try this test using wife's/mother's Cherrywood dressing table.)


Stitchawl

 

[fmendez]

I bought 18 dollars worth of veg. tanned horse leather from Sheridan leather, cased as suggested above then got a few pieces of scrap wood and mdf and made 5 smooth side strops:
0ne plain, one with crox, one with 3m diamond, one with 1 m. diamond and a spare. I still have lots of leather left.