Why buy factory knives?

Mack

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With all the great custom makers we have around here and considering the fact that you can get customs for around the same price as factory knives, why do you buy factory?
After using the few customs I have and working with guys like John(Stomper) who seems to answer everything with "yeah, I can do that", I don't expect that I will go back to factory knives.
Am I missing something?
 
Sometimes the factory knives are immediately available and very desirable, often with a good warranty and not too expensive.
 
Well, some people like factory knives. Simple as that. I really like Becker and RAT Cutlery. I've had handmades from several of the makers here, but I ended up trading them for one reason or another. If somebody makes a factory model of what you want/need, then there is no reason to look around. YMMV.
 
Kinda hard to explain, me personaly I am a big fan of NWA blades,but I do like my RAT Cutlery & Bark River due to if if there is an issue or lose it I can get a replacement From KSF or whoever and be back in business, the semi customs or customs down time can be long...
 
I completely agree with the thought, however I remember times in my life where there was just no money. I had 4 small children and I had to save up for a 60.00 knife. My "go to" knives were a buck 119 and a case xx pocket knife I paid 7.00 for in 1978. I have been blessed with a good education and a wonderful wife and I can indulge my inner knife fanatic in ways I only dreamed of a few years ago. For someone in this tough economic environment a 35.00 buck might be over the top. I have a friend who loves bushcraft and camping as much as I do and he has NO money for gear. His knife is a victorinox paring knife he bought for 2.00 and an old hickory butcher that we modded that he paid .25 cents for at a yard sale. the sheaths are homemade from leather he got from old purses. He is quite the frugal camper. I guess my point is that what may be an inexpensive custom to some may be totally out of reach for others. I try to remember this and keep in mind what the outdoors are really about...having fun, not going broke. While I believe we are in the golden age of cutlery, and that there are customs out there that are amazing knives at amazing prices, sometimes even affordable is out of reach....Jim
 
Why choose a Factory Blade? -
Factory knives come in all price points, From $10 Mora's to hundreds of dollar higher ends from Fallkniven, Spyderco's. When you break one, you send it in, and you get a replacement right away. With a Custom, and I have had them fail, and it can take a year or more for a replacement.

The factory blades, while not perfect, have the resources to insure that all of the metallurgical properties have been attained. Not all of the custom makers can do that.

I like and use factory, custom, and mid-tech blades equally. They each bring something to the table. For best bang for the buck, the factory really can't be beat. And now with all of the knife maker / factory collaborations that are occuring, you get the best of both worlds. For pride of ownership, a custom is awesome, and can't be beat in that arena. For real world use and SUPPORT, the factories are all that!
 
I love the fact that we are so blessed to have some real artisans here when it comes to custom blades. And yes, in the realm of customs, many are what would be called quite affordable.
But, my budget calls a $50 knife a luxury blade. My on call blades are a Mora Clipper & Mora 760, a Camillus Heat, and a Byrd FRN Cara Cara. That is 4 blades in rotation for a total of about $60.
I would LOVE to have a couple of custom/semi-custom blades, but right now, drooling here will have to suffice.

As an aside, I also think that the bigger companies do help maintain, at least in some way, what is left of our blade culture in a way that smaller less known makers don't reach. So in a way a sort of symbiotic relationship.

BKRHD
 
one big reason for me

" ship to CONUS only "

Im an aussie , and tho I love to browse the forsale section , I dont much cos I see a knife , want it , know I got the $$ for it

but the guy who made it wont sell it to me

so I go the shop and buy from someone who will , or make it myself , even tho its nowhere nears good a finish or well done as the ones I wanted to buy

easy :)
 
There is intrinsic value in hand made knives, but they don't have a monopoly on value. One of my favorite knives is the Lone Wolf Semi Skinner designed by Bob Loveless, made in Italy. Forged integral with a tapered tang for $125?! THAT is bang for the buck! ;)

Some of my favorite production knives:
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(OK, The TNT on the bottom right is semi-production. I reshaped and polished the Ti scales.:D )
 

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Factory blade are (in theory) cheaper than equivalent custom made product.
Factory blade are generally immediately available while custom requires to go through a wait list.
Sometimes factory made can be as good performance wise as certain customs.
Factory blade are generally more consistent in quality for certain type of blade.
Factory have more ressources sometimes giving them access to technologies not available to most individual makers (electronic ovens, certain coatings...).
Factories sometimes come with good designs from their own.
Factory blade sometimes sport features rare or less common in custom knives (for example stainless steel, exotic steels, certain coatings...).

...

That said this is only theory and there are many exceptions: sometimes factory made are more expensive than custom (see Spydie Bushcraft...)
Some factory made knives see more hand work than certain customs.
It is also ridiculous to see some pretty plain "limited edition" knives going for prices as high as high quality custom knives by famous maker from elaborated material because "there is only a thousand produced".
 
There are a lot of custom knives that I see here on Blade Forums that I would love to have, but they're simply out of my reach financially. When you're retired, and living on a Social Security pittance, even the "affordable" customs are too much. There are those of us who — while we love knives— simply can't buy even the least expensive of them without having to save for awhile.

What to do? Buy production knives, of course. There are production knives that fulfill all of our needs at prices that even the least expensive custom makers simply can't match. For many of us, knives like Beckers or Mora's are ideal: we get proven knives, of proven steel, with excellent warrantees, at prices we can afford.

I see many knives around here — knives that make me drool — that I would love to own ... but know I never will. Not everyone can afford to buy all the nice customs that are available, unfortunately. One man's "affordable" is another man's "I can't eat for a month if I buy that."
 
That, and sometimes I just like a factory blade more. I've really got my eye on a Fallkniven A1. I suppose I could see if a maker could make me one just like it, but I shutter to think what a lamenated VG10 blade like that would cost from a custom maker.
 
Thanks. I am with everyone on the "I can't afford it" front.
The only thing I could think of was the fact that if you need it now you go to the store and buy a factory knife. Now I see there are a lot of other reasons.
Thanks again. I always get my questions answered here.
 
With all the great custom makers we have around here and considering the fact that you can get customs for around the same price as factory knives, why do you buy factory?

After using the few customs I have and working with guys like John(Stomper) who seems to answer everything with "yeah, I can do that", I don't expect that I will go back to factory knives.

Am I missing something?

I think you're looking through the wrong end of the telescope, I think the question should be, why buy customs? That's not an attack on customer makers, either. If you look at all of the rational, logical responses to your question I would think you could see that purchasing the custom is what needs to be justified.

This is from the Bear Gryll's Clone Knife thread that is quite popular right now, a quote:

I collect survival knives and paid a lot for it. These knives are hand made and of high quality. I like it fine, but am not recommending it. A Mora can do just about anything the Bayley can do. Sometimes some of us buy things for reasons that have nothing to do with need or practicality. It gives me pleasure to own it, and that is what matters to me.

My god, if most people were as honest as this there would be very few flame wars about who has the bestest knife, blah-blah-blah.

It is a very honest thing to say and thanks for saying it.

Rightly or wrongly, for better or for worse, true or false, whatever-whatever, some knives, like some guns, become status symbols on these forums. Internet forums have changed so many things, they are great and they are terrible simultaneously. Exclusivity oftentimes blends with pride of ownership and bragging rights and it becomes a prism that bends reality. The reality being, what is a better tool? The truth of that is...most of the stuff being discussed in here every day, all of these knives and other pieces of gear are all lifesaving tools and it's all up to you. Some of the other "controversies" going on are an outgrowth of that bending of reality to the point where pride of ownership meets the invention of stuff you have to be able to do and if you or your knife can't do it, you're going to die in an emergency - it just isn't so.
 
First, production knives are readily available at (almost) all times, and there is a knife for all sizes. There is really no need to not buy them, especially if you want it as soon as possible.

Second, most of the big companies have a warranty that is great, so in the event of a knife failure, it is either fixed or replaced immediately.

Third, we don't NEED to spend a lot of money on a knife, so why buy a custom? Why not just all buy Moras? Because we want a tougher blade, and we want that higher priced knife, not because we need it.
 
Many times I buy a factory knife because I can handle them at a store and know exactly how it feels in my hand. Some knives just feel good when you pick them up. The price is not a real big deal because other than the Mora's, The knives that I am apt to buy are in the price range of most of the customs that I buy.
 
Great post Don.:thumbup:


For me, +1 on the affordability issue. Factory knives have offered features that I like at an affordable price. By investing in factory knives over the years, I have been able to indulge in a variety of different designs, depending on what I was particularily interested in at the time. 'Tacticool' and traditional, folding and fixed blades, simple to 'multi-tool'. They all have been used, and all have been fun.
 
I can't really see myself ever buying another factory knife other than maybe a SAK etc if one of mine breaks !
 
For me it is a bunch of reasons.

1] The principle that some foster, that “it is hand made therefore necessarily better” is wasted on me. I find that reasoning faulty so I reject it.

2] I have more confidence in something that has been professionally made than something that has been home baked simply because the sample size under real world trials is larger. Whilst there are excellent hobby makers out there for sure how many are truly professional, and how easy is tell a good one from a bad one. Something that has Spyderco written on it automatically gives me a feeling of assurance that simply can't be matched by men in sheds that have sold a few hundred let alone a few dozen. It isn't just home baked by a man in a shed vs a factory. It is home baked against world class players.

3] I don't do the personalization of knives thing that usually comes with home baked. A rack of identical knives to me is great, it indicates quality control. Others find that uniformity abhorrent. If even they haven't gone to the step of getting a true one of a kind hand made knife that is unique to them, they will often strain to personalize it some other way – carve their initials in it, get their mum to sew their name in it, even rejoice in the pattern of rust thats on it because no other knife has a pattern of corrosion just like that on it. You can amuse yourself with these people by dint of prediction. Give them an already extremely sharp knife and allow them to sharpen it, they will. They may not make it any better at cutting but they are happier because they've put their own pattern on it. I don't get that. Often the claim is made that a knife is a tool. Well yeah, I treat them like them. I don't personalize screwdrivers or pliers either.

4] Whilst the full tang and slab handles may be preferable to me for a number of reasons the fact remains that they often take a hell of a lot less skill to make than other types. Frame tangs and elaborate bolsters are far harder to make than slabs. Similarly, forging and drawing a wire rod then drilling down by eye so it resembles a drinking straw were standard skills in the days of Tom Beasley [SP]. I have respect for the craft of that as well as the art. Although brilliant knives are made by stock removal the trend is now such that any pleb can go get a bit of 01 [often selected because it is friendly to the maker as it is comparatively hard to FU], cut it out and straight to the belts. Simply pin on a couple of slabs when you're done and that's it. I even saw a scandi the other day with plywood scales. I just don't respect the craft in its current state as I would have done. That usually negates any feelings I would have had about the journey a handmade knife has been on as it got to me as being special. It's more just a product, a good one or a bad one. I can get that from a factory.

5] Few hobby makers here make good designs in materials appropriate to me without some shocking penalty elsewhere. Rubber. I like rubber handled knives. I know they are perhaps the cheapest way to handle a knife done in a huge run, and some people use that as an indicator of desirability. I just find it a happy coincidence. If it cost 10* the price of G10 or Micarta I'd still want it. However, because it done as molding on equipment not available to the home baker, there's a terrible paucity of it on home baked knives. Then there's that tendency for simple carbons that has no appeal to me. D2 is about the hardest I'd want to maintain. In short, getting a knife made from what I want is going to come at a premium over the factory with no readily apparent benefits.

6] The field knife I use at the moment I just love. I've said it a bunch before that although it is inferior in terms of materials to the F1 I prefer it. True, I'd like Boker to release an ATS 34 version, but other than that I can't improve it. If I were to look for a hobby maker to make a ringer for it I think they'd produce something no more useful to me but at greater cost. True, mine is at about 58 Rockwell and a good hobby maker could take that a couple of points higher. But 440C craps out at 60 and becomes way too brittle for a field knife so there's only a tiny amount of headroom to play with. In sum, I'd almost certainly have to sacrifice the handle I enjoy so much for 1 more point of hardness. That's a diminished return. I like knives. I like what good ones allow me to do. But I'm not such an anorak about it to make that swap.

7] As I'm not interested in art knives all that is left for me with the home baked thing is to get designs I can't get from factory. As far as knives go factories have got that covered already quite nicely. For me it would take me needing something quite exotic for me to go handmade. I've seen three lovely looking golok type things on here that I simply could not get anything like from a factory. That's a motive which lures me to the home baked side. I just don't need anything like that at the moment, and draws full of unused knives to me are just clutter and junk.
 
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I like production knives for all the reasons listed above plus the fact I am EXTREMELY picky when it comes to detail. I think I am cursed when it comes to having a perfect blade because I always find flaws in the knives I buy. I decided to try some of the custom makers here as I thought that would be the answer but I was wrong. I was upset at first because I knew I would get more perfection from a production blade but I then realized that its not perfection that makes a custom special it the true handmade look that these knives have.

I'm sure if I spent a couple hundred $$ on a custom I would have my perfection but the imperfections of a "user" custom has grown on me and given me more appreciation for the maker and the knife itself. Its a feeling you just don't get with a production knife, also having a knife made how you want it is pretty cool too.
 
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