Why can't I drill through this steel (and other questions)?

I bought some Craftsman drill bits that are advertised to drill though hard steels. I tried 1095 and ATS-34 with minimal results. In other words, I only got a couple millimeters depth. Max! I'm using a hand held drill (don't have a drill press, yet). What do I need to do/get short of a drill press?

Also, I read somewhere that JW Weld is like the mother of all epoxies. What do you all know about this stuff and where can I get some? Is there anything better? What do you people like/use?

Really need some help!

Tony
 
Chuck Gedraitis Knives

Chuck Gedraitis Knives

Joined
Dec 10, 1998
Messages
4,860
Tony,
those craftsman drill bits are made of high speed steel but don't cut steel that well, as you can see. Bring them back (lifetime guarantee) and use the new ones for drilling wood. A hand drill probally spins the drill too fast, and it heats up rather than cutting. Can you adjust the drill speed? Try putting some oil on the spot to help keep it cool, and take breaks while drilling to keep the drill from heating up. You can also try carbide ( kinda expensive but works well) or cobalt.
 
These ARE cobalt bits. They say on the package that they are designed for drilling through "stainless, alloy, hard steel". I'll try drilling at a slower speed. They did make some headway before they just stopped making progress. Your theory about the heat build up may be right.

Later,
Tony
 
You do have to drill at fairly slow speeds, and if you tip the drill even a little bit, or let it ride in one spot without cutting, its easy to wear the tip down just enough that it will quit cutting. Low speed with a drill press is best, and some kind of cutting oil helps too.

J.B.Weld is good, but one problem with it if you are intending to use it to stick knife handle slabs to a tang is that it is so thick that you can't get a nice thin and even glue line. Plus its a funky gray color when mixed.
It doesn't work bad for a filler if you're putting a stick tang inside a piece of horn though.

What I like to use is long setting, high working strength two part epoxy by Devcon or several other makers. You don't want to clamp things together so hard you squeeze everything out, and if some gets on the blade, scrape it off while it is still slightly flexible, otherwise it is a bear to get off. You should also let it cure overnight before working it.

madpoet
 
JB Weld *IS* the "glue of the gods" if you need to fill in gaps between two items being linked, or want to use an external "bead" of the stuff to radically reinforce the bond.

Yes, it's ugly. Yes, if everything is going to fit totally flush together there's clear stuff that won't look as ugly if it's not that strength-critical an area...

But if it MUST NOT FAIL, and you need to do a "filler" that's at least as strong as a good brazing link...this is the stuff. You could link the two barrels of a double-barrel shotgun with this crap.

Ace Hardware stores generally have JB-Weld...most independent H/W places, it's the big chains that won't deal in a product that's the *sole* item a given SMALL company makes, it's like trying to by a Sebenza at Wal-Mart, it just ain't gonna happen.

And yes, this goop is definately the "Sebenza of glues".

Jim March
 
I've used a different brand of epoxy putty called Miracle Weld. First I stuck a lump to a piece of galvanized steel I had lying around and after letting it harden overnight I tried to knock it off with a hammer. Good hard whacks marred the surface a little bit, but I couldn't break the adhesion. The stuff is light gray but takes magic marker well. It can be filed and sanded and drilled much like working fine-grained hardwood. I made a rear sight for my NAA mini-revolver out of it and I had to round the square corners because they were sharp enough to cut you. It's occurred to me to try making a knife out of it.

I'm pretty impressed with the stuff. It comes in different kinds -- I used the "Blue Core;" haven't tried the others yet.

-Cougar Allen :{)

 
AKY,check out the Drilling 5160 thread on here it`ll explain a lot. My drill press is too fast for drilling annealed tool steels unless the bits are pretty small,like for handle pins. I use LOTS of coolant/lube. A machinist friend told me they use drilling compounds that are thicker than gear lube and super low drill speeds for hard steels. I haven`t tried the thick stuff yet. I was trying to drill big holes to lighten the tang of some knives to get them balanced the way I want. I reasoned that you won`t see the holes once the grips are on so I just made the holes with the "hot drill" ie.big torch
wink.gif
Marcus
 
The drilling of holes to lighten the tang caused me to think of what I usually do after the knife's been HT'd if weight's a problem. I use a cutoff wheel on the flex shaft to cut a bunch of slits and X's, and match some of them up with slits I cut in the handle material. It gives more surface area for the adhesive to grip. Or, I use a dovetail cutting bit in the flexshaft to undercut holes in the handle material in line with the holes in the tang to give a better gripping surface.
As for the JB Weld, I find if I only have the edges of the scales (1/8" or so) in contact with the tang, it gives the goop somewhere to go, and I can crank down on my clamps with no worries about my adhesive showing
wink.gif

E-mail me direct if I didn't explain this good enough.
Harry Jensen

 
another sourse for the J.B. Weld in question is most any auto parts store.That is where ive always bought it. And yes it is damn near bullit proof!! Ive used it to fill in holes on the gas tank of my chainsaw that is made of aluminium. I think it is stronger than Al too because ive droped it onthat repair from 20 and 25 feet and it didnt even budge it!! My dad has repared stud bosses on the exhaust manafold for his pick-up and its still holding strong after 3 yrs!!!!!!
Like i said....damn near bullet proof!!!
good luck and have fun!! Chris S
 
If the steel is annealled you are running the drill to fast.
As for JB weld its great stuff. It can be found at most hardware stores. Some makers use it between the guard and blade to act where the solder joint is. It fills and looks like solder.

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Web Site At www.infinet.com/~browzer/bldesmth.html
Take a look!!!





 
I agree with the others that you are running the bits too fast. I helped another knifemaker through this same problem a few weeks back and actually computed my drill speed, which works well on ATS 34, annealed.

On 1/8" through 1/4" bits I run at 550 rpm.
Keep a little ketchup squeeze bottle full of water and give it a squirt at invervals. Not as good as cutting fluid but a lot cleaner.

Another tip you might enjoy. After clamping up handles I give the blade and guard a squirt of WD 40, being careful to keep it off the handle area. It "kills" the epoxy on the blade and makes it easy to remove after the handle has set up.


------------------
Ben R. Ogletree, Jr.
 
>>Another tip you might enjoy. After clamping up handles I give the blade and guard a squirt of WD 40, being careful to keep it off the handle area. It "kills" the epoxy on the blade and makes it easy to remove after the handle has set up.<<

I've used parafin for the same purpose, especially on the ricasso. Just rub it on then polish it off later.

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Ciao

MM
 
If I understand, you are not drilling with a drill press. I will assume you have an electric drill. Sounds like the problem is with a lack of pressure. You could try starting with a small thru hole, and enlarge it as you go. Also, is your steel soft? You can't drill hardened steel with these bits, or your electric drill.
The drill bits you have are just fine, normally, and should drill dozens of holes before they need resharpening.

Please post again if you have more problems

RJ
 
Tremendous response! I have taken to heart all that has been said and examined my drilling "technique".

I was drilling too fast. Probably didn't have enough pressure on the drill, either. So, I went back and with penetrating oil (it was close by) and a slower speed on the variable speed drill I was able to drill all my holes! I tried drilling smaller thru holes as RJ recommended and snapped my 1/8th in half. I went up one size (5/16th) and completed the job. My brass pinning rod is 1/8th so I might use the JW Weld for filler.

I really appreciate everyone's advice. It has proven very beneficial.

And the beat goes on...

Tony
 
Another epoxy to try is "Scotchweld" by 3M. It is an industrial adhesive used in the aerospace industry for things such as bonding aluminum skins onto the wings of airliners. It is also grey and takes several hours to set. Check with industrial suppliers or your local aircraft repair shops. 3M has other epoxies, too. Some of them are white, some clear.

Another source is your local hobby shop. Look for one that speciallizes in serving the model airplane builders.

Some notes about epoxies. In general, the slower setting ones, 1/2 hour or more, are stronger than the fast setting ones, such as "five-minute" types.

With the slower setting epoxies, heat the pieces to be glued, gently, with a heat gun or hair dryer. This makes the epoxy very runny, allowing it to flow into holes and cracks much better. This also helps get the air bubbles out, leading to a stronger joint. Be quick, and gentle, with the heat and it should not reduce the working time by much for epoxies that take 1/2 hour, or longer, to set.
 
PSO,

I just got through speaking with a guy at Dexter Hysol about epoxies in general. I figured I would go to the experts and get some info. He said the exact same thing. He also said that most of the epoxies for retail sale are suitable for our needs. Of course, some are more heat resistant than others. Check out www.glueguru.com. Packed with a lot of info.

BTW, I bought some JB Weld at the local Ace during lunch. These are just little 1oz. tubes. Can you buy this stuff in larger quantity?

Tony
 
AKY
This may help on the matter of JB weld. Brownell's Gunsmithing Supply sells several different kinds of epoxy die. I know it works with their acraglass and im may work with JBweld too. You just mix in into the epoxy as you blend the epoxy with the activater until you get the right color. It's designed for clear epoxy, so you may have a hard time getting the color just right, but if you use a little less activator, (hardener) you'll have plenty of "working time" before the epoxy starts to set up.

For sticking scales, you might consider Marine Epoxy. It's clear and sticks like there's no tomorrow. One warning though, the hardening agent for this stuff is MEK (Methyl ethyl ketone) and this stuff is flammable to the point of being explosive, so please extinguish all smokes before you open the bottle and don't order a gallon at a time. It only takes two or three drops for the average epoxy job. Hope this helps!
 
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