How To Why can't I get a knife sharp?

[Obsessed with Edges]

When I hear or read, "don't ever grind to a burr" as advice given to someone still learning sharpening, I read it more as "don't make sure your edge is ready for the next stage of refinement." It's really bad advice to someone who's still trying to figure it all out. The burr has huge significance in sharpening. It's the definitive proof the process has gone as far as possible, with nothing to be gained in grinding further, and the kick-off point for the refining steps. And learning to form it, and then minimize it's size and clean it up, is all just part of the learning curve. It's a good thing, even if we're sometimes a little uncomfortable with it. And learning how to deal with it is the permanent fix for that uncomfortable feeling, forever.

Once one has seen a burr on their edge, and taken steps to clean it up and verify what it means (in terms of sharpness achieved), it gets easier to minimize or even avoid a burr. That's only if one has already figured out how sharp the edge is capable of getting (as originally proven by the existence of the burr). In other words, there comes a point where one knows, with repeated experience* with a particular knife, that it's at it's sharpest, or very nearly and satisfactorily so; even if they've recognized it slightly before much or any burr forms.

* Edited to add:
At ~1:50 into the referenced video, Cliff Stamp even points out specifically, when he's doing the initial shaping of the bevels, that he "knows, from experience with this knife, how long it takes" to go far enough in shaping the bevels and the apex. Lacking that experience with a particular blade means not knowing how long it takes, unless one is watching what's happening at the apex very, very closely. That's where the presence of the burr will announce very clearly and without ambiguity, it's gone far enough.


David

 

[Wowbagger]

Hello,
The sharpie method is a great place to start. I purchased a $4 lighted loupe from fleabay and found out I was rounding my edge as it polished. Being able to visually confirm you are doing it correctly will speed up your learning process. This is the one I use and it works great.

I wish there was a button that put in about a thousand thumbs up. I would be pushing it right now.
I was going to say get some mag but I got lazy.
I am glad you told Bo that !

 

[Lapedog]

This works too, but note that not everybody thinks it's a great idea to raise a burr intentionally. A lot of folks--including me--are trying to avoid burr formation in the first place. As I'm learning myself too, this requires alternating strokes per side, very light pressure, and attention to detail so that when you see a burr starting to form, you immediately work on it and get rid of it. Hopefully it all gets the same result in the end, but it seems like burr formation is generally a bad thing and sometimes they're really hard to get rid of, so why do it intentionally?

In the finishing steps of the touch up I alternate sides each stroke to try and make sure no burr forms. However when the knife is really dull and more grinding is needed I find making the burr and flipping it seems to help get that initial sharpness.

 

[Wowbagger]

When one is still trying to figure out why(?) their knife isn't getting sharp, or maybe just still trying to get a better feel for when it's sharp enough, it's always, always, a GOOD idea to form and look for a burr along the full length of the cutting edge. Otherwise, one never knows (as a beginner) if they've gone far enough to a complete apex.

I believe this [avoiding bur formation] is a next step in sharpening.

Exactly. I totally agree.

No bur sharpening is an advanced method.
Learn bur first then move on to the method of apexing without bur formation.

 

[Wowbagger]

As far as the previous (sharpening) video goes :
That's my main man Cliff Stamp.
In short he's right.
The long answer is you got to be careful listening to him. He will have you thinking the earth is round and that all that exists (matter) is nothing but light and empty space and actually the light isn't really there.

All true but some people just aren't ready to hear that.

 

[Wowbagger]

Bo,
Are you listening to this ? ? ?
Are you still there ?
I just want you to have all the back ground.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

As others have mentioned, developing a burr is a good method for beginners to use for verifying when they've fully apexed the edge, but as you develop more familiarity with the sharpening process you want to be minimizing it as much as possible.

 

[Wowbagger]

Looks like 'O Bo has just a touch of ADD
Fare well Bo where ever the wind carries you.
Watch out for the Bats !

 

[HeavyHanded]

When I hear or read, "don't ever grind to a burr" as advice given to someone still learning sharpening, I read it more as "don't make sure your edge is ready for the next stage of refinement." ...even if we're sometimes a little uncomfortable with it. And learning how to deal with it is the permanent fix for that uncomfortable feeling, forever.
David

The only way you can avoid sharpening to a burr is on a knife with a well formed and established edge and via microbeveling. Trying to sharpen a factory edge without making a burr is hopeless. Trying to rapidly sharpen without a burr or a microbevel is largely hopeless. Making major changes to an apex angle and trying to avoid a burr is largely pointless.

Raise a small burr and remove it. Remove it on the fly as you work. Use abrasives that incorporate some lapping action.

Sharpening without a burr is dependent on a number of factors we cannot always control - it is not more 'advanced' than any other form of sharpening, does not make a more durable edge, and attempting to make use if it without a solid basic understanding is liable to lead to less progress than just raising a burr and removing it.

To the OP I'd recommend you sharpen to a more acute angle. If you're doing everything else reasonably well that should solve your problems. Check the edge at every grit progression as well, some steels/abrasive combinations do not play well together, especially as you make the edge more refined.