Why can't I put a scary sharp edge on my knives????

Noshtero

Noshtero

Joined
Oct 10, 2002
Messages
1,551
Hello all,

I have both the Spyderco Sharpmaker and the Gatco sharpening system, and I'm unable to put a razor sharp edge on my knives. I'd like to think I'm not a moron, but I just can't seem to get it done. I've given up on the sharpmaker because I'm sure the problem there is my failure to maintain the correct angle, but I can't figure out why the gatco doesn't work for me. I mean, I can put an edge on a blade, just not a razor sharp one. I've been told that I can easily return a benchmade to factory sharp, or sharper, with the gatco system. I've been brainstorming ideas, and here's what I've come up with. Please either give me your advice, give me the correct way to do my three brainstorms, or both.
1) I'm simply not spending enough time on it. On a 4" blade it usually takes me 5 or 6 strokes to get all the way down the blade, and I do this 5 times on each side for each stone.
2) I'm using too much or not enough oil. I usually put a coating over the whole stone so that the stone appears darker/wet but isn't
3) I'm pushing too hard or not hard enough. I use a little but firmer than light pressure.

Let me know as this is a major frustration. I know it's not the blade quality, because I'm sharpening Benchmade blades. Thanks
Nosh
 
I sometimes find I just can't sharpen a knife. I never let my knives get below hair scraping sharpe to make life easier.

How course are the stones your using? I don't really now about these guided systems so forgive me if it's clear but how heavy is the oil your using. I find lighter oils work better for fast sharpening. At times I've used greese to get the final edge.
You may need to spend a lot more time on each side of the knife. Don't do it on strokes, let the knife tell you when your done. You should raise a burr on one side and then flip over to the other side. It can take ages
 
It took me a while to figure out my lansky system I just bought... Now I'm sliceing paper left and right... Infact just yesterday I reprofiled my friends Benchmade Ares (it had a bad experiance with a bad sharpener. it was a sad sight)

Ok, the only thing I can think of is your not spending enough time finishing with the finer stones. (I agree it's not quite the finish from the factory... this is why I like to finish with my sharpmaker) but it takes a while to go form the course to the fine.... sometimes i dont bother with the course just becasue of that very reason... If the knife is not super dull, the medium and fine stones usualy do a pretty good job.

Hope this helps,
Hydraulicman
 
Noshtero,
I will tell you that I believe you have hit on all the possible points that could be your problem or just a combination of all of them. This said you sound like you know what to do, however, may I just suggest what I do, which is the following:

[1] Get a smooth stone such as a Medium-Fine Washita ($5. - $7)
[2] 2 to 3 drops of light oil or a quick spray of WD40 will cover most stones with an assist from your index finger.
[3] At about a 30 degree angle depending on the existing bevel of the blade should be sufficent.
[4] With light pressure and in small circles as if you were cutting or sliceing into the stone with the blade for about 10 seconds on each side... Repeat this on either side checking after both sides are done until you achieve the hair popping results you desire!

I learned this method from an old self-proclaimed mountain man who hunted and trapped and took more game than most any man we ever knew. We all called him Uncle Jake. And in 1967-68 when we got our first pocket knives he taught my brothers and I the exact same process mentioned above except he used creek water or his spit instead of oil.. I have tried countless methods and contraptions over the decades convinced that some bright soul had to have built a better mouse trap than the old Washita or Moon stone.. But now that I am older and a little wiser I know that its all a waste of good hard earned money. Uncle Jake's knives all used to shave hair like no other knives I ever saw then or since.. Apart from my own, and precious few others.. Give it a try and let me know how you do.

Best,
Anthony
 
sunnyd said:
[3] At about a 30 degree angle depending on the existing bevel of the blade should be sufficent.
[
Click to expand...

:eek:

try closer to 15 to 20 or you will have a seriously obtuse edge.
 
Noshtero said:
Hello all,

I have both the Spyderco Sharpmaker and the Gatco sharpening system, and I'm unable to put a razor sharp edge on my knives. I'd like to think I'm not a moron, but I just can't seem to get it done. I've given up on the sharpmaker because I'm sure the problem there is my failure to maintain the correct angle, but I can't figure out why the gatco doesn't work for me. I mean, I can put an edge on a blade, just not a razor sharp one. I've been told that I can easily return a benchmade to factory sharp, or sharper, with the gatco system. I've been brainstorming ideas, and here's what I've come up with. Please either give me your advice, give me the correct way to do my three brainstorms, or both.
1) I'm simply not spending enough time on it. On a 4" blade it usually takes me 5 or 6 strokes to get all the way down the blade, and I do this 5 times on each side for each stone.
2) I'm using too much or not enough oil. I usually put a coating over the whole stone so that the stone appears darker/wet but isn't
3) I'm pushing too hard or not hard enough. I use a little but firmer than light pressure.

Let me know as this is a major frustration. I know it's not the blade quality, because I'm sharpening Benchmade blades. Thanks
Nosh
Click to expand...


You must use the marker trick. Paint the edge bevel with a black permanent marker (rubbing alcohol will take the excess right off afterward).
1. Start with a course stone at 30 degrees or less.
2. If the marker is not removed ALL THE WAY TO THE EDGE, then you must keep going until it is.
3. Then at the same angle progress to finer stones.
4. Re-Mark the edge.
5. Do the final edge bevel greater than the first, say 40 if you used 30 previously.
6. Again, sharpen with coarse/medium and make sure the marker is removed right at the edge.
7. Continue to progress to finer stones until it is sharp.
8. If it does not get sharp enough and the marker is removed all the way to the edge, you need to get an even finer stone and/or use lighter pressure.
9. You can strop (edge trailing) to get it even sharper.


On the sharpmaker, you can try 30 degrees first and then 40. The sharpmaker does not have very coarse stones (unless you get the diamond ones), so your problem is probably that you need a long time to get the initial bevel all the way to the edge, which is why the marker trick is very important.

Hope that helps.
 
Just another friendly reminder that different systems refer to the angles involved differently. The 40 degrees referenced on a sharpmaker is inclusive - i.e. 20 degrees per side. So when using a benchstone you are holding the blade at exactly HALF of what the sharpmaker angle is (15 for 30, 20 for 40). Also, Lansky 20=Sharpmaker 40 as the lanksky deals with only one side (and angle) at a time.

This isn't directed at anyone in particular its just something that comes up from time to time and can be confusing for folks just getting into sharpening.
 
I have an unconventional way of putting on a RAZOR sharp edge no matter what your technique.

Get your knife sharp first on a stone (any angle, any technique) ... then "strop" your blade. I do it on a bench grinder with a buffing wheel and metal polish. Be carefull not to press too hard and not to buff the very tip as to blunt it. Your blade know will be RAZOR sharp. The metal does not get hot, so it shouldn't effect the temper. Not to change the subject, but what do you guys think of this technique? It also works great for serrated edges.
 
klattman has the right idea. The tricky part about sharpening isn't learning some magical technique, because all you're doing is removing metal until you have a finely polished, acute wedge. That's all a razor sharp edge is. Try the magic marker trick, and read some of the articles on this page. Specifically chapter 3. I didn't have much success at sharpening until I understood what effect all of this grinding and polishing had on the edge. Once you understand that and practice a bit it becomes pretty easy. Good luck. :)
 
I have a sharpmaker and a lansky (whichever one has all the stones from x-coarse to ultrafine) and a lansky diamond professinal kit. I have never used the Gatco's so can't comment. But since they are similar I assume duplicatin the following with a Gatco diamond kit and ceramic kit will provide the same results. However, the way I sharpen a knife works every time and when you're done the edge is scary sharp. I have even managed to put razor edges on those cheap crap chinese "tac" folders, granted they don't last if you try to use the knife, but you can put them there. If I have previously shapened the knife myself I just touch it up on the sharpmaker using either fine or ultrafine stones. One prob I don't think I saw addressed is totally reprofiling the edge. Knives from the factory are often ground at uneven angles, I have even seen this on benchmades I've paid over 150 dollars for. I had one where one side appeared about 20 degrees and the other btn 25 and 30 pitiful slicer. If original edge is not a perfect V no amount of honing with a fine stone is going to produce a wicked edge.

Anyway heres what I do for a 1st time sharpen job. I clamp the knife in the lansky and always use on the 20 degree setting. I oil each stone before using. I start with the Ultra coarse diamond and using light pressure I pass 100 times each side. This should develop a perfect 20 degree V. If it does not keep going over it with the X coarse diamond, keeping the stroke # even until you have a perfect 20 degree edge on each side. This step and the last are most important, if both sides of the edge do not form a perfect V to begin with if will be near impossible to get a razor edge and ever harder to keep it. BTW until I get to the ultrafine hone I stroke one side the number and the the other the number.

After you have formed a rough edge progress to the coarse diamond, all the way to Fine or ultrafine diamond. I pass 50 times each side with each diamond hone. Then move up to the Ultra coarse ceramic hone and give each side 100 passes each. Give the blade 100 passes each with each ceramic hone until you get to the ultra fine hone. On this hone you must stroke the edge and flip the knife and stroke the other edge, like on a benchstone. This final step can take time and be picky, keep checking the edge and don't stop until YOU are SATISFIED. This system may no be very scientific or approved by anyone else on here I developed it out of personal trial and error, but I guarntee results. When you are finished the knife should be scary, wicked sharp. Also if you have ultrafine triangles for the sharpmaker it is easy to keep the edge just touch up at 40 degrees as needed. Hope this helps, if anyone tries this and can't get a razor edge I'd like to know ;) And if anyone knows a better way I'd like to hear about it.

Of course the only prob w/guided kits is rounded the tip of your knife. Which is why I now only use the x-coarse diamond lansky to form a perfect V and then go the sharpmake route finishing up with the ultra fine rods. But since you didn't like the sharpmaker I thought I'd share the way I sharpened knives for years before getting a 204.
 
Use the marker -- you might just be reprofiling when you think you're sharpening.
 
For those telling you to count your strokes, don't listen to them, what horrible advise. You will end up removing either to little or to much metal. Use the marker trick, maybe invest in a basic magnifing lupe. If you start with a corse abrasive and want to polish the edge you simply want to remove the scratches from the corser abrasive. There isn't a magic # for this. It all depends on what you're using and the steel you are working with. Radio Shack sells a pocket microscope, 60x-100x with a light. This will let you inspect the scratch marks if you want to be really anal. Otherwise just eyeball it.

The fastest way for me to get a razor edge is to reprofile the blade to 15 degrees per side and then putting a 20 degree per side edge on it. You could reprofile the blade with your Gatco, polish up the bevel however much you want, and then use the Sharpmaker to put the 20 degree bevel on. Just use very light pressure when using the sharpmaker or you might roll the edge over. I usually just start with the corners on the white stones and put on a micro bevel of an edge.
 
WadeF said:
The fastest way for me to get a razor edge is to reprofile the blade to 15 degrees per side and then putting a 20 degree per side edge on it. You could reprofile the blade with your Gatco, polish up the bevel however much you want, and then use the Sharpmaker to put the 20 degree bevel on. Just use very light pressure when using the sharpmaker or you might roll the edge over. I usually just start with the corners on the white stones and put on a micro bevel of an edge.
Click to expand...

same here. For a thick blade I usually use micromesh to polish up the 30 degree bevel as more steel is exposed and then put a 40 degree final edge on after its all pretty.
 
You could always buys some cheap knives to practice with on the sharpmaker, and the diamond rods. I don't use my old way anymore, was before I got a sharpmaker and knew anything about sharpening, just listed it because it ALWAYS works for producing a scary edge.

Does anybody here use an EdgePro and if you are already good with a sharpmaker is it worth the money???
 
I use an EdgePro, mostly for reprofiling. I like using the Sharpmaker to put my final edge on as it's easier to go back and touch my knives up on it. It's a pain to set up the Edgepro if all you want to do is touch up the edge. Before I had the Edgepro I had a Lansky and Gatco and hated using them.
 
My 2 cents:

For profiling an edge, I use Razor Edge clamps; I'm sure other guided systems work well, too, but I didn't know about them 35 years ago when I started using Razor Edge. I never could get a good edge before that.

I only use a coarse stone on a blade with a poor bevel. Knives that have a good, but worn or very slightly chipped bevel, I start with a medium-fine stone and the Razor Edge guides. I grind one side to get a burr the whole length of the edge, then the other side to get a burr and an even bevel. I finish on a Hard Arkansas black stone (very fine). After decades of using the razor edge, I find it fairly easy to hold the right angle (15-20 degrees to the stone, depending on the blade and cutting task) when freehanding, so when I just have to resharpen a blade in otherwise good condition, I freehand on the Hard Arkansas, again going by the burr (harder to feel, though, with this fine of a stone). After the second side, I do a couple of strokes on the reverse to take off the burr. Then I strop; nothing fancy, just an old wide leather belt (smooth side up) glued to a 1x2 board, with jeweler's rouge, and not too much pressure. On a variety of knives, from cheapies to Spydie Milli, I get hair-splitting, paper shredding, shaving-sharp edges - of course, they last longer on better steel. The keys I have found are decent stones with proper lube (if called for), proper and consistent angle, and grinding for an even burr. The best Sharpening web site I've found is Steve's Sharpening Site: http://users.ameritech.net/knives/index.htm, but that may have been mentioned by someone else.
 
WadeF said:
I use an EdgePro, mostly for reprofiling. I like using the Sharpmaker to put my final edge on as it's easier to go back and touch my knives up on it. It's a pain to set up the Edgepro if all you want to do is touch up the edge. Before I had the Edgepro I had a Lansky and Gatco and hated using them.
Click to expand...


I'm with Wade on this, I do the same thing except the Sharpmaker mostly gets used for kitchen knives, first cause that's where I keep it and second that's what I used to reprofile most of the kitchen knives anyway.

Edgepro for really bad knives, and once I'm set up I usually sharpen for a couple of hours.

Lansky, currently used as a spacer to keep the dvds from falling over.
 
sting7777 said:
Just another friendly reminder that different systems refer to the angles involved differently. The 40 degrees referenced on a sharpmaker is inclusive - i.e. 20 degrees per side. So when using a benchstone you are holding the blade at exactly HALF of what the sharpmaker angle is (15 for 30, 20 for 40). Also, Lansky 20=Sharpmaker 40 as the lanksky deals with only one side (and angle) at a time.

This isn't directed at anyone in particular its just something that comes up from time to time and can be confusing for folks just getting into sharpening.
Click to expand...


Good point, I should have mentioned this, it can become quite confusing.
 
I also have an Edge Pro and agree with Wade. I use mine when I want a 'pretty' edge. I can get a knife sharp using coarse freehand stones and a Sharpmaker, but it won't be as sharply defined and polished. As for being worth the money... I bought mine five years ago. At the time, it cost me about a month's pay (I was in high school). I've never regretted it for a moment.
 
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