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Why can't I put a scary sharp edge on my knives????
- Thread starter Noshtero
- Start date
).
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2005
- Messages
- 597
I was never that great at stone sharpening (impatient, is the real diagnosis), but recently I bought for like $12 a little sharpening system/kit called a CrockStick (http://store.lansky.com/iwwidb.pvx?;multi_item_submit)
(URL is a little off, just click on crock stick when you are there, if you are curious...) A little wooden box holds two crock stick sharpening sticks (ceramic, I guess), you take them out and put them in holes in the box top and you get either 20 or 25 degree angles, your choice. You just hold the knive vertically and slice down the sticks.
I got the thing because my all wife's Henkel kitchen knives needed sharpening and I didn't want some big project. And y'know? Damn if that thing didn't put a great edge on those knives! Shaving sharp! (I use the sticks, then steel, then a little stropping with a piece of paper).
I used them to touch up my Wegner Pro Hunter, which is S30V, worked good on that too!
Maybe not the traditional "best" in sharpening... but it works for me!
By the way, I used to go backpacking in Yosemite when I was young... I still remember my father, who also collects knives, spitting on that sharpening stone.... maybe that's why I don't like stones now!
(URL is a little off, just click on crock stick when you are there, if you are curious...) A little wooden box holds two crock stick sharpening sticks (ceramic, I guess), you take them out and put them in holes in the box top and you get either 20 or 25 degree angles, your choice. You just hold the knive vertically and slice down the sticks.
I got the thing because my all wife's Henkel kitchen knives needed sharpening and I didn't want some big project. And y'know? Damn if that thing didn't put a great edge on those knives! Shaving sharp! (I use the sticks, then steel, then a little stropping with a piece of paper).
I used them to touch up my Wegner Pro Hunter, which is S30V, worked good on that too!
Maybe not the traditional "best" in sharpening... but it works for me!
By the way, I used to go backpacking in Yosemite when I was young... I still remember my father, who also collects knives, spitting on that sharpening stone.... maybe that's why I don't like stones now!
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2005
- Messages
- 819
Hey DRider, if you like the crockstick you'll love the spyderco sharpmaker 204, the systems are essentially the same, but the spyderco rods are triangular which allows them to sharpen both plain and serrated edges. Use the flats for plain edge, the corners for serrated. They come with 2 sets of ceramic stones, med and fine, sells for $43.99 at Oso Grande. Also you can additionally purchase Diamond coated rods, for edge regrinding/reshaping and ultrafine stones which make knives wicked sharp. Also the 204 can be used as a conventional benchstone. Since I got one it's all I use anymore. If your happy with the crockstick that's fine, and you may already know about the 204, but in case you didn't it's a more versatile but similar system 
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2003
- Messages
- 530
Sounds like your biggest problem is a trait induced in sharpening with a fixed angle system like the Gatco or Lansky.
Make sure you are not re-beveling everytime and not starting with a coarser stone than required for the level of dullness.
What happens with these systems is that if you stop (lets say with your finest stone) and call it good you more than likley are left with a bad wire edge which must be removed.
Do you notice that your knives also do not stay sharp very long?
This would be caused by the thin wire edge breaking off.
Use the marker method to be sure of a clean fully sharpened bevel,get knife as sharp as you can with your finest stone (the edge will start feeling toothy when its reaching its peak-it may or may not shave hair at this point, believe it or not I check for this feel on the pad of my index finger).
Once the blade is good and toothy get an ultra fine diamond or ceramic stone (or the ultra fine in your kit if it has one) increase the angle of the blade on the stone a few degrees from the fixed angle on your jig( in good light hold benchstone and blade,lift blade up till bevel is flush with stone surface-look for a gap with the light showing through-just when the light is gone the bevel is flush on stone,now raise the blade a little more and stroke lightly one stroke at a time on each side and feel edge after each pair of strokes.
It usually only takes a couple of strokes on each side to get rid of the wire edge and you will feel the edge change quickly from coarse toothy to polished fine and shaving sharp.
After this the blade can be polished even further with a fine grained leather strop but stay away from abrasive compounds- they basically take the place of the ultra fine stone and would actually dull the edge if used after an ultra fine stone and bare fine grained strop.
Another point I would like to make is that there is a connection factor to sharpening blades that can only be made when doing all sharpening by hand with benchstones-you can constantly check and feel the edge progress through all phases of the sharpening.There is a more personal relationship between you and the blade.
There are many other reasons sharpening by hand is better but I am getting off the topic here.
Make sure you are not re-beveling everytime and not starting with a coarser stone than required for the level of dullness.
What happens with these systems is that if you stop (lets say with your finest stone) and call it good you more than likley are left with a bad wire edge which must be removed.
Do you notice that your knives also do not stay sharp very long?
This would be caused by the thin wire edge breaking off.
Use the marker method to be sure of a clean fully sharpened bevel,get knife as sharp as you can with your finest stone (the edge will start feeling toothy when its reaching its peak-it may or may not shave hair at this point, believe it or not I check for this feel on the pad of my index finger).
Once the blade is good and toothy get an ultra fine diamond or ceramic stone (or the ultra fine in your kit if it has one) increase the angle of the blade on the stone a few degrees from the fixed angle on your jig( in good light hold benchstone and blade,lift blade up till bevel is flush with stone surface-look for a gap with the light showing through-just when the light is gone the bevel is flush on stone,now raise the blade a little more and stroke lightly one stroke at a time on each side and feel edge after each pair of strokes.
It usually only takes a couple of strokes on each side to get rid of the wire edge and you will feel the edge change quickly from coarse toothy to polished fine and shaving sharp.
After this the blade can be polished even further with a fine grained leather strop but stay away from abrasive compounds- they basically take the place of the ultra fine stone and would actually dull the edge if used after an ultra fine stone and bare fine grained strop.
Another point I would like to make is that there is a connection factor to sharpening blades that can only be made when doing all sharpening by hand with benchstones-you can constantly check and feel the edge progress through all phases of the sharpening.There is a more personal relationship between you and the blade.
There are many other reasons sharpening by hand is better but I am getting off the topic here.
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2005
- Messages
- 597
Spydiefan04 said:Hey DRider, if you like the crockstick you'll love the spyderco sharpmaker 204, the systems are essentially the same, but the spyderco rods are triangular which allows them to sharpen both plain and serrated edges. Use the flats for plain edge, the corners for serrated. They come with 2 sets of ceramic stones, med and fine, sells for $43.99 at Oso Grande. Also you can additionally purchase Diamond coated rods, for edge regrinding/reshaping and ultrafine stones which make knives wicked sharp. Also the 204 can be used as a conventional benchstone. Since I got one it's all I use anymore. If your happy with the crockstick that's fine, and you may already know about the 204, but in case you didn't it's a more versatile but similar system
Thanks for the info! I looked it up on the net... pretty similar in concept to my cheapy but effective crock sticks but more stuff there to use!
I have a technical question though... my sticks have built in 20 and 25 degree angles... while the Sharpmaker has 40 and 30... I'd think, just by the numbers, that the 40 and 30 would leave a more obtuse edge ("wider?") and thus not quite so sharp, though perhaps more durable (?)
So what's the deal with the angles, do you think?
DRider said:
The sticks are 20 and 25 PER-SIDE, which would be 40 and 50 INCLUSIVE.
The sharpmaker's 30 and 40 are INCLUSIVE, so they would be 15 and 20 PER-SIDE.
Unless you have a blade made of very very soft steel, I don't think 40 per-side would be useful at all. Maybe for a convex hatchet or axe.
Hope that clears things up.
Noshtero: What angles are you using on the Sharpmaker and the Gatco?
The black marker seems to be your salvation here.
Reprofile your blades to about 30 deg. inclusive on the Gatco with a pretty coarse stone, till the marker shows that you have fully reached the edge. Don't go hard but use firm pressure. You should turn a small burr as well. Then stop with the Gatco and move through all 4 steps on freshly cleaned Sharpmaker rods at a 40 deg. setting. Yes, you can get a better edge with more care and time, but that would give already a shaving edge.
The black marker seems to be your salvation here.
Reprofile your blades to about 30 deg. inclusive on the Gatco with a pretty coarse stone, till the marker shows that you have fully reached the edge. Don't go hard but use firm pressure. You should turn a small burr as well. Then stop with the Gatco and move through all 4 steps on freshly cleaned Sharpmaker rods at a 40 deg. setting. Yes, you can get a better edge with more care and time, but that would give already a shaving edge.
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2005
- Messages
- 597
klattman said:
I appreciate the info. Nice to have hundreds of knife folks available for questions!
So, the crock stick instructions of starting with the "20's" and then doing a few finishing strokes on the "25's" is like starting with a full 40 degree edge angle and finshing with 50? That seems really out there, then. Maybe I've just been sort of refinishing my edges, since I don't let edges dull out much before I like to bring them back.
But then again, that thing put some wicked edges on the Henkel's cooking knives, and they are pretty slim. So I dunno
Maybe I'll experiment with more acute angles and see if I can get all the hair on my arm to leap off when I just show them the knife!
Actually, it sounds like I'll be upgrading my sharpening equipment when my cash flow recovers from the Great New Years Buying Spree.