Why did my vantage pro get so much sharper than my military?

CrimsonTideShooter

CrimsonTideShooter

Joined
Oct 23, 2010
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Both were done at the same angle on the edge pro, and both were taken from 220 all the way to 3000 grit. The vantage pro is WAY sharper than the military.

So what caused that? Shouldn't they be pretty much the same? Or does the difference in heat treat make that big of a difference?
 
If I'm correct, the Military is flat ground while the Vantage Pro is hollow ground. Hollow ground blades will take an absolutely wicked edge, but tend to be more delicate than a flat ground edge. That would be my guess.
 
CrimsonTideShooter said:
Both were done at the same angle on the edge pro, and both were taken from 220 all the way to 3000 grit. The vantage pro is WAY sharper than the military.

So what caused that? Shouldn't they be pretty much the same? Or does the difference in heat treat make that big of a difference?
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Could be a lot of things, HT not being one of them other than taking longer to sharpen if one is harder. Spyderco runs there S30V pretty hard at 60 RC, Buck is s lightly softer.

Might want to go back to the 600 Grit Stone and make sure you have a good bur going then to the 1000 grit doing the same thing. Check and make sure the tape is hitting the edge right with the sharpie trick.
 
J.Davey said:
If I'm correct, the Military is flat ground while the Vantage Pro is hollow ground. Hollow ground blades will take an absolutely wicked edge, but tend to be more delicate than a flat ground edge. That would be my guess.
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Sharpness will be the same, grind has nothing to do with it.

S30V is S30V.
 
Ankerson said:
Could be a lot of things, HT not being one of them other than taking longer to sharpen if one is harder. Spyderco runs there S30V pretty hard at 60 RC, Buck is s lightly softer.

Might want to go back to the 600 Grit Stone and make sure you have a good bur going then to the 1000 grit doing the same thing. Check and make sure the tape is hitting the edge right with the sharpie trick.
Click to expand...

Ok so it is just human inconsistency that is causing it? That seems pretty plausible. I didn't know if the two steels could be different somehow so that's why I asked.

I guess I'll just pay more attention to the military when I redo it.
 
CrimsonTideShooter said:
Ok so it is just human inconsistency that is causing it? That seems pretty plausible. I didn't know if the two steels could be different somehow so that's why I asked.

I guess I'll just pay more attention to the military when I redo it.
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I think it will take more time with the Military becuase it's flat ground compared to the Hollow grind of the Buck. Less steel to move on the Buck.
 
HT and blade thickness can be the more common causes but you must know you are consistent first before ruling on other things.
 
What's your test for sharpness? If you're cutting paper like I do, the slightest imperfection in sharpening can make the blade catch. My friend has been trying to get his sharp, and they look perfect to me, but they don't slice through as well as the ones I've sharpened.
 
Tsujigiri said:
What's your test for sharpness? If you're cutting paper like I do, the slightest imperfection in sharpening can make the blade catch. My friend has been trying to get his sharp, and they look perfect to me, but they don't slice through as well as the ones I've sharpened.
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TP slicing. I can feel that the vantage pro kind of "melts" through the TP, while the military seems to be forced through it.
 
CrimsonTideShooter said:
TP slicing. I can feel that the vantage pro kind of "melts" through the TP, while the military seems to be forced through it.
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Remember you are talking about 2 different grinds here.

The Vantage will move through it easier because of the hollow grind, thinner grind.
 
Ankerson said:
Remember you are talking about 2 different grinds here.

The Vantage will move through it easier because of the hollow grind, thinner grind.
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Ahh ok. See I don't really understand all the nuances of blade grind and edge geometry yet.

I thought the FFG of the military would beat all others most every time. Why is the hollow grind better in this case?
 
CrimsonTideShooter said:
Ahh ok. See I don't really understand all the nuances of blade grind and edge geometry yet.

I thought the FFG of the military would beat all others most every time. Why is the hollow grind better in this case?
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Thinner blade slice better than thicker blades.

The less steel behind the edge the easier it will cut.

But yeah keep working on the Military and you can get it sharper.
 
Ankerson said:
Thinner blade slice better than thicker blades.

The less steel behind the edge the easier it will cut.

But yeah keep working on the Military and you can get it sharper.
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I repaired a chipped straight razor for a friend and tested it on TP when it was done. Wow, talk about thin behind the edge! Straight razors are the extreme of hollow grinds. Shaves great, too. It "sings" as it cuts.
 
kawr said:
Keyword is might. HTs are not precise which is why every production company gives ranges. Also the tester in that post also says the measurements can be off +-1.
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In that post:
Spyderco Military S30V________58.3
Benchmade 710 D2___________61.6
Buck Vantage Pro S30V________59.7
Note: Normally you can only measure Rockwell hardnesses ±1 because that is all the calibration standards are good to. So normally one could only say that these are 59±1. except for the D2. However, these were all measured on the same machine, calibrated to the same standard. Therefore, in this case, the differences are valid differences.
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I totally agree that HTs are not precise. I just wanted to point out that Ankerson's statement that Buck's S30V is softer than Spyderso is not correct and it can be quite the opposite.
 
Just assuming here, but if you didn't set the angle by grinding a bit on a "flat" surface on the blade beforehand, the two knives could be at completely different angles.

Not sure if hardness has any effect on how fine the edge can get, just on how long it stays sharp.
 
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