Why do ppl use saw instead of saws and chopping tools?

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wadly

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Apr 2, 2005
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Was intrested y ppl use saw instead of axes or chopping tools...any reasons thanks
 
The thicker the piece of wood you're cutting is, the more efficient a saw becomes compared to a chopping tool. The one exception to this is when you're cutting down a tree. The saw is STILL more efficient but with big trees you have big saws that have a LOT of cutting material pulling against all those teeth, and you really do better with another person on the other side to help push/pull. If you're by yourself, your stamina will do much better with an axe.

Now, if you want to split the wood instead of chop it through, your bitted and bladed tools take over. They'll hit a grain line and wedge your piece apart. Splitting with saws has never worked very well for me. Saws do, however, allow you to make much more precise cuts, unless you're one of those lumberjacks who practices 200 days a year and can create millimeter thick slices of wood with a broad axe. :D

Also, with smaller pieces of wood you can go through them much more quickly and with less effort than a saw with something sharp and heavy that will just power through them. A decent sized fixed blade should lop off most 2-inch branches with one (or maybe two) swings. Sawing it won't take much longer but is more effort. A decent sized axe will make short work of still larger pieces in a couple swings.

I keep talking about wood, but the above applies to pretty much anything you're trying to cut through. Saws will do it cleaner, and are limited in the size of object they can cut by their own length. Axes/hatchets/khukuries/big knives can go through medium-heavy stuff faster, and don't care how big the object is. By the time you finish trying to take something big down with one of them, YOU'LL probably care, but they will eventually go through it.

Power tools, of course, open up a completely new ballgame.
 
Saws work better for cutting down trees, and for cutting the tree into manageable segments. If you are going to make firewood, then you will have to split the wood, and that is where you need chopping tools. If you only could have one tool, one for chopping would be the way to go, as it can cut and split.
 
If you were out in the woods and had to cut a three-inch-in-diameter sapling, would you rather use a Swiss Army Knife with a saw or a 7" chopper? I for one would take the saw for two reasons: A) the cut is cleaner and more precise and because of this and the smaller motions it B) wastes much less energy and time.
 
NeedleRemorse said:
If you were out in the woods and had to cut a three-inch-in-diameter sapling, would you rather use a Swiss Army Knife with a saw or a 7" chopper? I for one would take the saw for two reasons: A) the cut is cleaner and more precise and because of this and the smaller motions it B) wastes much less energy and time.
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I would prefer the chopper, since the saws on SAK's are just about useless- I have used both Vic and Wenger saws, and on anything over two inches they dont work real well. The saw doesnt lock, and is so short that on a three inch Diameter sapling you cant get any saw motion in. It also wants to close on my fingers.
I could chop down a half dozen 3" saplings in the time it would take to saw through one with a tiny micro saw.
If the choice was a between a swede saw and a large knife, then the saw would be the clear choice.
 
At the cutting contest in Atlanta Blade Show, I cut through a 2x4 in 5.7 seconds w/ a 10" blade. On anything under 6" diameter I'll take my camp knife. If I'm going bigger than that, or for a big pile of fire wood, it's Sthil time.
I have found the "pocket-saws" worthless except for moose ribs.Not worth packing the extra wieght if you also have a decent knife. Some of the larger fold out bow saws have their uses.
Adam.
 
I would prefer the chopper, since the saws on SAK's are just about useless- I have used both Vic and Wenger saws, and on anything over two inches they dont work real well. The saw doesnt lock, and is so short that on a three inch Diameter sapling you cant get any saw motion in. It also wants to close on my fingers.
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If anything, I find the SAK saws to be very aggressive and I don't cut with the spine so I guess I've never needed a lock (on any knife) :p . I do agree the a smaller sapling would be a better example, but even on things with a larger diameter than the length of the blade I have no problem using the saw.
 
NeedleRemorse said:
If anything, I find the SAK saws to be very aggressive and I don't cut with the spine so I guess I've never needed a lock (on any knife) :p . I do agree the a smaller sapling would be a better example, but even on things with a larger diameter than the length of the blade I have no problem using the saw.
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When the blade comes out of the groove, and if the tip catches on the return stroke, it will close up. ;)

Adam DesRosiers: That is some impressive cutting! I would be hard pressed to match that speed with my 27" Machete!
 
I cut down a tree recently (without the help of "undocumented immigrants", thank you very much) and I used an axe instead of a saw. The reason is that, in the case of a large tree, the tree's weight will push down on an axe and create a great deal of downward force that tends to seize a saw at the end of a stroke.
 
[axe vs saw]

Thirteenth Star said:
...the tree's weight will push down on an axe and create a great deal of downward force that tends to seize a saw at the end of a stroke.
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Saws (manual ones) were not used to cut right through a tree for several reasons. When felling large wood saws were used for the under cut and axes used to clear the notch and then the saw used for the back cut. With a chain saw you can make the three cuts with the saw.

-Cliff
 
I cut down a tree recently (without the help of "undocumented immigrants", thank you very much) and I used an axe instead of a saw. The reason is that, in the case of a large tree, the tree's weight will push down on an axe and create a great deal of downward force that tends to seize a saw at the end of a stroke.
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Use wedges, stops biding.

Saws are light, fast and much safer than an axe. They require much less energy and concentraion to use. Yeah, conentraion. I have to be very focused to use chopping tools safely, but I can carry on a conversation, watch the kids, etc while bucking wood to length for campfires. I can saw for much longer than I can chop.


Yeah, there are time when a chopping tool is better, splitting with a saw would be pretty unfufilling, limbing as well.

What is a better tool, a screwdriver or a hammer? Depends on the task right?

On thin saplings, a big blade will bring them down fast. Thick hard wood, give me saw any day.

They compliment each other, not replace. Try using a saw for the undercut and see how much eaiser felling bigger sticks gets. . .
 
knifetester said:
They require much less energy and concentraion to use.
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With Japanese saws I tend to have to watch what I am doing, it isn't as demanding as using a large blade, but while you can get sloppy with a western style saw, control lost on a Japanese saw can break the blade in half or give it a severe buckle. It is mainly bad habits from running western saws, all you basically have to do is not push on them.

With a saw, with just a few minutes of instruction I would be confident in having even a young kid use them under careful supervision. It would be a long time before I would feel the same amount giving someone a felling axe. While I am not as strong against them as some are like Hood and Ritter, they do take a lot more care than a saw.

I do think that too much is made about their danger though, I don't think it is as hard to teach someone proper axe use as it is for example to have them drive safely, especially in a busy city, and there is no problem recommending that young kids do that as soon as possible.

-Cliff
 
Manual saws are safer.

If you do something often enough you will undoubtedly slip up at some point. Slip up with an axe or large knife and you will end up with it in your foot or maybe shin. Sure you can be taught to use anything safely, but that doesn't mean that at some point you won't mess up. Actually the more you do something the greater the chance that a mistake will be made. Old Dale knew how to drive really fast, but it still cost him his life.

That said, chopping tools are just better for doing some things than saws.
 
All depends on what size wood you're cutting, and what kind of saw.
For instance, the 3" sapling example. I'll take a hatchet or larger knife over any saw, because it's all going to be over with in a couple of seconds. The SAK saw is going to take a lot longer, and a lot more energy. Before the cut even gets started with the saw, it's done with the knife or hatchet. There's no comparison.
Now take a 8" log and a knife vs. a suitable bow saw, and again there's no comparison, as the knife is going to take "forever" because most of your cutting is notching to open up the cut so the knife can go deeper. The axe may be faster than the bow saw at first, and I'd rather fell wood that size with one, but sectioning that wood into usable logs with the axe is a lot of work, and there the saw comes into its own.
Guess there's a reason there are different types of tools...
 
OwenM said:
Now take a 8" log ...
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If you take a soft wood like pine, you can get 3"+ of penetration with a decent axe and basically cleave that size of wood in eight swings if you place them correctly. You can get a swing a second, so with optimal technique (no chip staggering) on clear white pine that is ~8 seconds.

However you get a harder/knotty piece of wood and the penetration can drop down to under an inch. Now a comparison slaughters the axe because it can't even open up a notch wide enough to get halfway through the stick and thus you are double/triple notching and the time goes way up.

Long term fatigue wise it depends on user experience, someone who does a lot of axe work will be more productive on an axe vs a saw even if the wood favors a saw. Most carpenters for example can use a hand saw all day long.
-Cliff
 
Thanks guys for the reasons also would a gas portable chainsaw be practical for cutting felled 2-3" poles?
 
Well you could cut them up fast, that is for sure. Practical is up to you. Depends on how much work you want to do, how far you have to carry it and the gas, etc.

Using a good folding buck saw you could buck about a whole lot of 3" poles in a couple hours. I strongly prefer folding Buck saws or Swede saws over folding pruning types. I find them much easier to use for bucking, which is the vast majority of my saw work. The Sawvivor and Duluth Pack saw are my two favorites. The pruning type work better for sawing in thickets, where the frame is getting bnaged into other trees though. I like the Bahco/ Lapplander the best here.

Again, like Owen and others suggest, a saw and axe are not mutually exclusive, use them where each is best suited.

Sawing rather than chopping to cut wood to length is pretty essential if you are using it for firewood (like to fit in in your wood stove), since you will likely be splitting it as well. When you saw the wood, it has a flat base to rest on the chopping block. Try splitting some chopped wood and you'll see what I mean.

I saw this pic of some outdoors tools on another forum, and think they look like a pretty good tool kit for woods work. To round it out even more a heavy machete or brush blade could be added:
grbo0107ck.jpg

grbo0119kr.jpg
 
In removing various shrubs, such as birds of paradise, a full-sized axe is more efficient in my opinion than a full-size bow saw.

images
 
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