WHY do you guys want a convex edge on your Satin Jack?

Walking Man

Walking Man

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Okay, I'm a little confused.
Busse knives, are, of course, really really tough, and impact resistant by themselves. Does the SJ really need a convex grind? For me, it seriously hinders any slicing a knife might be able to do, and it adds weight.
And to be honest, I'm not a big Convex fan anyway.
Also, if I wanted a chopper, I think I'd want something longer.
So, please explain to me.
Is it just the fact that Jerry's never put out a convex grind before or what?
I would think a Convex would be more suited to a longer knife, or maybe even the hatchet.
Some help please. Thanks.
 
When Jerry first mentioned that the Satin Jack TAC was going to be full convex, it was because a lot of early requests from military folks, and indeed for military orders was to get a knife with the Jack's dimensions with the strongest possible geometry. I can see your point though with regard to slicing and stuff. While the full convex may be heavier than another grind in a knife of similar dimensions, it should be significantly lighter and an easier carry for military folks than some of the more burly designs like the SFNO (which I have and love). I am not that knowledgable about different grinds to be honest. I just seem to love all of Jerry's work these days...in whatever shape or grind it comes in. :D
 
That is a very good article and coincidentally I was just there half an hour ago to look for sharpening pointers :cool:. Walking Man, I think you are right about the prying performance being a consideration. That article really makes me believe that a satin finish is the only one that would stand up over time with sharpening. If you have to sharpen the entire grind, a finish is going to be worn as much by sharpening as by use(?).
 
you dont actually have to sharpen the entire grind, you can just be lazy about it and hit the sides of the knife without damaging the intended geometry like you would with a v-ground knife (lazyness = multiple uneven bevels or a slight convexing).

basically stropping without having to set it up as delicately.


jerry stated that the reason for the full convex grind was to increase lateral strength - wich means prying. he said that that was preferable to a saber grind (where you have a region of full spine thickness near the spine, rather then having the main grind go all the way up) for cutting ability.

basically - with a saber grind you move the material apart faster as you push the knife through it then when you have a full flat. the convex grind is in between the two, leaving a better cutting performance then the saber, but more strengh then the full flat.

thick of it as a saber grind thats been rounded out a lot. things will slip across it better then if it was a saber v.



this is all at a higher cost then if it were to be done at a saber v, because im pretty sure that theres a lot more personel work that goes into it. with a saber v, it seems from what ive read so far that it could pretty much be set up and done completely by a grinding machine.





the idea is to get the strenghth of a saber grind without the crappy cutting performance of a saber grind.
 
lol... i didnt think about it before, but that thing would be hell to sharpen on an edpro system like i use... id have to hone my stropping skills...
 
Why do I want a full convex grind Satin Jack?

Ultimate weight to strength ratio.

Most robust edge configuration.

Not the best slicer or chopper, but definitely the best configuration for everything in between.

My fully convex Fallknivens are beautiful, and I'd like a Busse to keep them company.

David
 
SethMurdoc said:
lol... i didnt think about it before, but that thing would be hell to sharpen on an edpro system like i use... id have to hone my stropping skills...
Click to expand...
.
Was that intended as a pun?
If so..... GROAN.
 
The new Satin Jack is possibly the knife I want the most, because it is the right size for my tactical. The size will make it large enough for heavier jobs, but small enough as to give me good control for fine work.

Edge durability goes a long way. I've never had a full convex grind and will probably not maintain it as full height, to preserve the protective coating. I'll have to learn how to cheat a little. Worst case, maybe go to a multi-bevel on it.

And, following the kind gent who sent me the preview pics, I am really eager to order a Satin Jack. The only question is the thickness, which I have a little time to figure out. I do have a tendancy to use my knives for prying...
 
Guys , a convex blade will slice just as good as any other grind . It's all in the thickness of the blade and edge . The problem with a convex edge is , most of the time they are done using a grit of at least 1000 (I use 1500) . If you want a convex blade to slice all materials as well as other edge grinds , give it a few passes over a 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper strop . It will ruff up the edge and give it more bite , but it won't shave hair as well .

Personally , convex is my favorite (like anything else , it's a preference) and I can't wait for this one to be released :cool: .
 
cgd160 said:
Guys , a convex blade will slice just as good as any other grind . It's all in the thickness of the blade and edge . The problem with a convex edge is , most of the time they are done using a grit of at least 1000 (I use 1500) . If you want a convex blade to slice all materials as well as other edge grinds , give it a few passes over a 600 grit wet/dry sandpaper strop . It will ruff up the edge and give it more bite , but it won't shave hair as well .

Personally , convex is my favorite (like anything else , it's a preference) and I can't wait for this one to be released :cool: .
Click to expand...

I couldn't agree more. BUT, I do find field sharpening more awkward. I don't carry sandpaper or a strop.
 
csbjr said:
I couldn't agree more. BUT, I do find field sharpening more awkward. I don't carry sandpaper or a strop.
Click to expand...

I also agree completely . I carry a Lansky mini ceramic rod for field use on my convex edges (if I have a pack on , I throw in an old leather belt as well) . I also carry a DMT Diafold in one form or another . If the edge gets beat up enough I use the DMT to fix it then go with the ceramic to finish (if the belt is on me , that's the final step) .

I've read nothing but good stuff about HandAmerican sandpaper . I eventually will order some and make a field strop .
 
ive found that hand american sand paper goes out really fast if you use it dry. i havent used it wet yet, but im pretty sure its wet dry paper, so it would be worth trying it wet to see if it lasts longer... havent had to use the system for a while outside of the leather pad for finish stropping (wich ROCKS :D :D ), and the half smooth half grooved steel/leathersheath for steeling. again, another rockin peice of equipment.... not a very good escrima stick though :rolleyes: .... a little jb weld in the handle might have helped before i started wackin things with it...


it seems from what ive read that belt sander sanding paper tends to be a lot thicker then normal sanding paper, and you can actaully expose new sanding surface by cutting off the top grit. seems like that would make abetter feild sharpeneing paper then the stuff hand american uses, wich is a lot thinner (like normal sanding paper). hand american will bite in more at any given grit though...




i have found that with every single busse that ive gotten with a factory edge, it was unsatisfactory at any cutting task. its a steep edge (often 45 degree's) and its polished to like 3000 on the direct cutting edge, so you get somethingthat shaves really nicely, but wont slice for a damn.

i have also found that once you bring the edge down to 21 degree's or less, any single busse will do fine at any cutting task. i had a pd that i brought down to 24 (21 would have eaten away way to much of the main grind), and it was then usable for every day cutting. same with a 4" pbf wich is almost thicker ground then the pd because of its 1/4" thickness vs. 3/16".

the pbf series are absolute tanks, 1/4 low sabers on all. from what ive seen, their the thickest buss's out there (for cutting geometry). like the pd, when i first had them in my hands, i couldnt get them to cut cloth. id end up wedge tearing it. there was no way to cut cloth using a knife ground at 55+ degree's at a high polish. BUT... once brought down to 24 degree's (and about 35 on the tip, didnt want to eat off 3/4 of the coating there by bringing it lower), they become very usable for any cutting tasks. still not great slicers like a spyderco or super thin knife, but they will make the initial cut just as well as a spyderco at the same angle.
ala:
http://mysite.verizon.net/res1udb2/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/busse-pbfs-wrapped.jpg

so what everyone is saying about a convex knife is pretty much true, IF its sharpened to a decently low edge degree. all it is is a slightly thicker version of the full v, and at 3/16" it will be a very usable slicer with a good edge.
 
Seth

Use the HandAmerica paper wet. Last about 1000X longer it seems. Cuts better also. I had no luck with it till I used water, now, it's all I use.

Rob
 
definitely good to know... i went through pretty much my entire stock of the stuff in the begining though... whats left is stripped of any grit it came with.
 
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