Why Does Everyone Think 1095 is Tough?

Roguer said:
Properly done 1095 is a good knife steel, not so well done its scrap metal.
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That is pretty much true of any steel, and the real crux of this thread.

1095 is relatively inexpensive, so it has been (and continues to be) used by multitudes of makers across multitudes of knife models. That means there is greater probability that a mediocre maker with mediocre heat treatment can bang out tons of knives that have the potential of being sub-standard when compared to high-end makers using high-end steel. The high-end maker can afford premium steels, and typically have the resources and expertise to consistently nail the heat treatment on their products.

Give 1095 to a proven manufacturer, many who have been named in this thread - and 1095 has the capability of turning into decent, tough, and dependable tools.

Done properly and consistently, 1095 is a very capable jack-of-all-trades steel and makes for a good knife. It's been around forever, and it isn't going away any time soon.

On the other hand, you don't see many people complaining about M390 or S90V or Elmax (for example) for good reason. It is expensive and the makers who use it have no choice but to do it properly, as their livelihood depends upon it. A mediocre maker makes up for it in volume by using 1095 (for example), and if a bad one slips through, it is not as much of a financial hit, as they make up for it in quantity due to the relatively affordable cost of pumping out 1095.

But it's not about the steel - it is about how that steel is hardened and tempered. Even M390 is Jello if not done correctly.

Why does everyone think 1095 is tough? Because done properly, it is. (Mic-drop)
 
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shane45-1911 said:
That is pretty much true of any steel, and the real crux of this thread.

1095 is relatively inexpensive, so it has been (and continues to be) used by multitudes of makers across multitudes of knife models. That means there is greater probability that a mediocre maker with mediocre heat treatment can bang out tons of knives that have the potential of being sub-standard when compared to high-end makers using high-end steel. The high-end maker can afford premium steels, and typically have the resources and expertise to consistently nail the heat treatment on their products.

Give 1095 to a proven manufacturer, many who have been named in this thread - and 1095 has the capability of turning into decent, tough, and dependable tools.

Done properly and consistently, 1095 is a very capable jack-of-all-trades steel and makes for a good knife. It's been around forever, and it isn't going away any time soon.

On the other hand, you don't see many people complaining about M390 or S90V or Elmax (for example) for good reason. It is expensive and the makers who use it have no choice but to do it properly, as their livelihood depends upon it. A mediocre maker makes up for it in volume by using 1095 (for example), and if a bad one slips through, it is not as much of a financial hit, as they make up for it in quantity due to the relatively affordable cost of pumping out 1095.

But it's not about the steel - it is about how that steel is hardened and tempered. Even M390 is Jello if not done properly.

Why does everyone think 1095 is tough? Because done properly, it is. (Mic-drop)
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You dont need magic ht to make 1095 tough. People went and fought ww1 and ww2 with 1095 knives with no differential ht and no normalising. 1095 standard toughness is good enough for a knife.

I belive the popularity of 1095 is because since its a ancient steel is very well known everywere and has been field proven. I does not compete with more modern steel we have but is still tougher than 90% of stainless steel so that why people call it tough.
 
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PlumasDePan said:
1095 is not tough compared to other steel but is tough enough.

The reason why 1095 has such a big fame is because it's used worldwide by military forces. Giving examples as the kabar or the Glock knife. During WW2 almost all armies used 1095 in their knives which prove to be good enough.

Another thing i want to correct users here is that new Becker knives don't use 1095... They use 1095 crovan which is very very similar to 52100. However this is proof of my point since when Becker knives made their own steel they tryed to associated itself to 1095 which is the gold standard for military knives.

1095 is a very very old steel. And and is ancient technology compared to more modern steel. Just steels like 52100 or 5160 are much better at everything than 1095. However 1095 is not the best but is good enough.
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Bolded stuff needs some help- 1095 CroVan is 50100B is good old Carbon V when Camillus was making Cold Steel, which they were doing before Becker launched the Camillus- produced line, before Camillus fell apart. Sharon steel developed it in the 1960's IIRC- it wasn't created by Ethan Becker.
 
I think the real question is why do some people use their knife no matter what metal it’s made from as a crow bar, hatchet or splitting wedge when it is designed for cutting and slicing ?

With all the survival shows and since Rambo came along it seems that many folks have to try and be like minded and take it to extreme. As well as the chopping competitions and such . Not that there is anything wrong with that but it doesn’t compare with normal everyday situations. Some novice user will try to imitate those actions and they break and destroy their knife for the lack of understanding.

Yes there are many kinds of steel that are tougher even stainless but back in the day when the common carbon steels were used they performed very well for decades and some that were taken care of are still going strong. Back then most folks used hand tools every day and they used the proper tools for the tasks they were doing. Such as; Saws, axe, hatchet, clever, splitting wedge, pry bar, chisel, and many types of knives designed for specific tasks.

I use mostly stainless types of steel knives for corrosion resistance and all of them are rated as tough or much higher than 1095. And yes I could probably do most of the things I cut with a 1095 blade but I have had some rust issues so I prefer stainless.

There’s nothing bad or wrong with 1095 steel when the knife or tool is used properly for the intended tasks. Same for other steel types.
 
8-D1-F3058-250-E-4651-A8-E6-7-A96-EE11-E405.jpg

As others said, it depends a lot on heat treat. According to BM, these 1095 blades are hardened to 57-59 hrc and are designed for chopping.
 
This is interesting. I'd always thought 1095 was a great all around steel for hard use outdoor tasks, meaning it's tough and sharpens easy in the field. I'm seeing ESEE, Becker and others using it and getting praise and a reputation for being great knives.

Maybe it's not as tough a 3V, but it seems to do the job. Am I wrong?
 
kobold said:
Steel charts - if I am reading it right 1095 is tough: https://forum.spyderco.com/viewtopic.php?p=1511785#p1511785
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If I’m reading this correctly it is based on formulas not actual tests. And it doesn’t seem to have the complete list of the different levels of hardness or the geometry. Things don’t always perform the same on paper as in actual testing. There are charts comparing different steels in tests that are relevant to real world usage taking into account the geometry and method of sharpening. All things considered and at different hardness. And they conflict with this chart.

I’m sure that any type of steel can be designed to perform at its best just as it can be designed differently and under perform. But if both are designed to the same geometry, sharpened the same, all things being equal and then tested the same, then a true value can be assessed.
 
xylum said:
This is interesting. I'd always thought 1095 was a great all around steel for hard use outdoor tasks, meaning it's tough and sharpens easy in the field. I'm seeing ESEE, Becker and others using it and getting praise and a reputation for being great knives.

Maybe it's not as tough a 3V, but it seems to do the job. Am I wrong?
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If you go online and look at all the Esee Junglas videos and how tough that knife is for being so thin, it gives you an idea of what properly HT'd 1095 can do. So you are right.
 
Is the toughness of 1095 that people refer to more about the overall toughness of the entire blade? Not just the edge? Im not sure if tough is the best word but I alway felt a 1095 blade could endure quite a bit of abuse without breaking. It can obtain a good level of flexibility and edge toughness if heat treated right.
 
... and - with all that, 1095 really isn't very tough in the grand scale of knife steel options

this is why 1080, 1084 and 1075 is used so much for choppers and machetes (1075 esp so, like my ontario ct5) when you're under the eutectic point, right around 0.8% carbon, you gain much in terms of toughness

en.wikipedia.org

Eutectic system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Larrin Larrin wrote about it
knifesteelnerds.com

Carbide Types in Knife Steels - Knife Steel Nerds

A description of the major carbide types in steels, how they form, why they are there, and how carbides contribute to different properties of steel.
knifesteelnerds.com knifesteelnerds.com

you want to avoid the cementite (and other carbides) if you value toughness ...
you can't really avoid those with 1095, but you can with 1080 or 1075 ;)
 
dirc said:
... and - with all that, 1095 really isn't very tough in the grand scale of knife steel options

this is why 1080, 1084 and 1075 is used so much for choppers and machetes (1075 esp so, like my ontario ct5) when you're under the eutectic point, right around 0.8% carbon, you gain much in terms of toughness

en.wikipedia.org

Eutectic system - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

Larrin Larrin wrote about it
knifesteelnerds.com

Carbide Types in Knife Steels - Knife Steel Nerds

A description of the major carbide types in steels, how they form, why they are there, and how carbides contribute to different properties of steel.
knifesteelnerds.com knifesteelnerds.com

you want to avoid the cementite (and other carbides) if you value toughness ...
you can't really avoid those with 1095, but you can with 1080 or 1075 ;)
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0.1% carbon difference shouldn't quadruple toughness. Std, HT done on 1095 is all but worthless. The problem with numbers provided for 1095 is that they do not represent the potential of 1095. I would bet that an ESEE Junglas in 1095 is tougher than an Ontario RTAK in 5160. If you go by straight protocols, this should not be the case. Two nearly identical knives, would be an interesting test. 5160 supposedly has 4 times the toughness of 1095. I don't believe those numbers at all. Especially after having had many knives from both steels. I have had 5160 fail just about as often as 1095.

Here is another example. When cpm3v was starting to become popular, I purchased several custom blades, this is in the early 2k period. 20 years ago. I was getting chipping and damage that should not have been possible if you believe the toughness rating. HT was done exactly as spec'd. Turned me off of 3v for a decade or more. My old Busse A2 steel knives were all considerably tougher than my early cpm3V knives. This should not have been the case. Modern 3v with optimized HT solved those old issues, from my own experience, bringing 3v to it's full potential, IMO.

of course the above is all subjective.

Impact toughness values are cute, but the reality is that if the HT of that steel isn't optimized to the sweet spot for that steel, it is good for a general guide with a good grain of salt and that's about it. And I don't believe those long established numbers for standard steels are optimal.
 
I can baton my BK2 through a lawnmower and fix the damage with a brick - I can then use the spine of the BK2 to break the brick - I can then baton the BK2 into a tree and use it as a step - and so on...
That knife is tough, and it is made of a 1/4" hunk of good ht'd 1095. If the knife would be 3/32" it would fail in some of the above tasks.

It's geometry, heat treat and mass that is defining the toughness more than the steel. You overbuild a knife and have a decent heat treat, you get an reputation for toughness.

I like the 1095 steel of my Beckers because they are designed exceptionally well and the steel is easily maintained without the need for a special sharpening equipment.
Would I buy a BK7 in 3V? I'd be all over it, but not because I need the tougher steel, no, its because it is an amazing knife and would be cool to have that option.

YMMV
 
PlumasDePan said:
1095 is not tough compared to other steel but is tough enough.

The reason why 1095 has such a big fame is because it's used worldwide by military forces. Giving examples as the kabar or the Glock knife. During WW2 almost all armies used 1095 in their knives which prove to be good enough.

Another thing i want to correct users here is that new Becker knives don't use 1095... They use 1095 crovan which is very very similar to 52100. However this is proof of my point since when Becker knives made their own steel they tryed to associated itself to 1095 which is the gold standard for military knives.

1095 is a very very old steel. And and is ancient technology compared to more modern steel. Just steels like 52100 or 5160 are much better at everything than 1095. However 1095 is not the best but is good enough.
Click to expand...
52100 is a nice steel. I don't have much experience with 5160, but sometimes the quality of strength without the toughness is nice (if you like a knife that deflects and that you can drop or pry locks with, then that's not 1095, but I like 1095 in upper hardness for a slicer better.

26c3 is sort of like a better version of 1095 - same idea, though. Makes a wonderful woodworking chisel whereas something like 52100 punishes itself with toughness (we don't pry much with woodworking chisels, they go straight in. When there's a deflection continuing to hang on to the edge, it propagates because it's the same strike on the same spot going over and over. It's actually a little nicer if it lets go and doesn't propagate).

But, I sure do like 1095 and doubt many old timers were slowed by it - if you need it tougher, make it softer. IF it's not tough enough still, make it thicker or steeper. If you need it more keen, make it harder.
 
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