Why Does Spyderco Favor S30V over S35VN?

[NJBillK]

On a similar note notice that 3V is more wear resistant than 440C, 154CM ( listed as 14-4 ) and even D2 even though "common knowledge" here says that 3V is tough but not wear resistant so it is better for fixed blade knives than folders. I guess my point isn't so much about the steels but more about what is often said around here should often be ignored in favor of trying it out for ourselves.

Joe

I don't know, I have personally read on here that 3V tends to have a wear resistance of near S30V, possibly closer to S35Vn, with added toughness but sacrificing corrosion resistance. Cruwear and PD1 tend to be closer to S30V in wear resistance.

Sounds like decent wear resistance to me.

 

[beattheheat]

I am new here,with not much knowledge about all the different kinds of steel,but isn't the heat treatment the most important part of how a blade/edge functions?

 

[Mo2]

s30v is based off of 3v

http://www.seamountknifeworks.com/articles/S30V.pdf

Little more on s30v
http://www.seamountknifeworks.com/articles/S30V_update.pdf

S30v datasheet
http://www.crucible.com/PDFs\DataSheets2010\dsS30Vv1 2010.pdf

S35vn datasheet
https://www.crucible.com/PDFs\DataSheets2010\dsS35VNrev12010.pdf

3v datasheet
https://www.crucible.com/eselector/prodbyapp/tooldie/cpm3vt.html

More steel articles from the pro Phil Wilson
http://www.seamountknifeworks.com/articles.htm

Cedric ada test on s30v

Cedric ada test on s35vn (he does like 5 different knives so check out the others, here's the crk one

Test with 3v

As for chipping. I'd suggest the chipping is due to heat treatment, possibly the sharpening, maybe improper angle for the steel/ht, (maybe carbide tear out from not using diamond too) or burnt edges or improper use for the type of steel (some steel will bend and some steel will bend only slightly and then chip). S35VN includes niobium to reduce possible chipping, as mentioned in the datasheet as linked above.

you can see that s30v and s35vn is close in composition, with 1% less vanadium in s35vn and a little more carbon in s30vn. but even so, it seems that s35vn has a slightly longer edge retention. though CATRA testing shows its about the same. the difference in testing in Cedric ada and Ankerson is about 20-25 cuts. so its about the same, within margin of error. though to be fair, it seems with a higher hardness and better cutting geometry s35vn can do much better as seen in ankersons testing.

Edit:
Ankersons steel tests
https://www.bladeforums.com/threads...ed-on-edge-retention-cutting-5-8-rope.793481/

 

[bearfacedkiller]

I have used S30V hard many times and had no chipping. In one instance I took a S30V Para2 down to around 22 degrees (just a guess) inclusive freehand sharpening and proceeded to cut up a thick area rug with poor technique. The edge rolled in many spots but it had no chipping. I hacked and sawed and stabbed that rug until it would all fit in a trash can so my trash service would take it.

I have only used S35V in the Native5 but I honestly don't think I can tell them apart.

 

[skwurll]

I've had no chipping with S30V. I think acute/high polished edges caused a lot of the chipping people experienced with S30V. Like em both.

 

[emjay4248]

I am new here,with not much knowledge about all the different kinds of steel,but isn't the heat treatment the most important part of how a blade/edge functions?

I'll give you a cooking analogy. You buy two N.Y. Strip steaks and one is Prime Aged the other is Choice (it's what most supermarkets sell) and you cook the exactly the same on a super heated cat iron pan. No matter how you heat treat the steak the Prime will come out much better but remember that it cost you 3x the price.
Same with steel, the heat treat can be perfect on both but every steel has it,s limit. If you heat treat AUS8a perfectly as Cold Steel used to do it will never achieve the same qualities as a well treated S30V.

In reference to Spyderco not switching to S35 in many cases manufacturers will make quantity deals with a supplier in oirder to get a good better price and I would bet that is the reason.

 

[The Mastiff]

"In reference to Spyderco not switching to S35 in many cases manufacturers will make quantity deals with a supplier in oirder to get a good better price and I would bet that is the reason."

I don't think so. They have shown that they will order whatever they need for whatever they intend to run. Much more so than any other company of their size IMO. Look at the sprint runs and mules. What they have done is unprecedented and nothing short of incredible. They have changed the way other company's respond to market demands for new steels, higher hardness and thinner grinds. There was always a market for quality but this company really began the and set the standards for extremely high performance. Would we be seeing 10V@ 62-63 or Maxamet @ rc 68-70 in a production knife if it wasn't for Sal and the Spyderco team?

You know how I answer that question.

Joe

 

[The Mastiff]

"Sounds like decent wear resistance to me."

Me too. I have found my knives seem to perform like yours. The thing I like about 3V as well as Cruwear and 4V is the higher edge stability and of course toughness is nothing to scoff at either even in a folder. The high edge stability gives us an ability to fine tune the edge differently to needs as they change without having the edge fall apart or chip as easily. I also like the ability to run these steels at rc 60 and above for folder use.

I will always remember how amazed I was when the first powder steels were released ( 440V then S30V then ZDP 189 all by Spyderco in my case). It completely changed the way I looked at knives and what I should want and expect as far as performance is concerned. Relatively, I, and many other people are spoiled now in comparison to the old days.

Joe

 

[Josh K]

These are the only chips I see in daily use with S30V, S35VN, and a couple other daily carries.

Thanks The Mastiff for trying to steer the discussion away from “lore” and fairy tales and towards things backed by data. I fear it's a lost cause. So much hype around the latest and greatest turns people sour to perfectly fine knives. Must everything be M390?

 

[John_0917]

I think a lot of it has to do with the experience and investment in terms of manpower and other expertise that Spyderco has put into S30V as well as the fact that they have really well refined their S30V production.

S30V gets a lot of crap for it's sub par performance in some brands, and rightly so. That said, Spyderco S30V is a much better performer than almost every other brands version. Also, there aren't many knives they make that aren't available in some other, often exotic steel.

Those who say it's not helping justify the cost, remember it better than Emerson and their putty soft 154CM! My 8Cr Kershaw Emersons have better edge retention, no joke.