Why Doesn't EKI Sell PB Washers?

MatthewSB

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Feb 1, 2013
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EKI sells all sorts of spare parts for their folders. Used to use phosphor bronze washers on folding knives, but now use nylatron. I understand the value of nylatron, but prefer phosphor bronze because it's metal and it works well.

Why not sell phosphor bronze replacement washers along with the other spare parts? You could sell a $0.09 washer for $5 each and people who prefer PB washers would pay it.

I know, for sure, at least one person who would buy more EKI knives if PB washers were available from the factory :o
 
I thought Emerson has only used nylatron? I know part of the reason that he uses nylatron is that he builds the knives for use in a maritime environment, hence the materials need to be corrosion resistant.

To be honest I didn't like the nylatron/polymer washers at first because when I first got into knives they always seemed to be warping and made the action feel gritty. But with Emerson I've never had that problem so my opinion on them has changed.
 
From the man:

Dear Members,

I was looking through the forums and happen to come across this post. I just finished replying to an e-mail from a customer regarding this subject. I thought it might be relevant here so I've included it below.


Best Regards,


Ernest Emerson






Dear xxxxxxxxxx,


As with everything we do, it is purpose driven. Although many not knowing the history of Emerson Knives think that we are just another Knife Company, the roots of this company are buried deeply in the history of the Naval Special Warfare community.


Per the requirements set to us by NAVSPECWAR, all of our materials were dictated to us by the environment they were to be used in. Since SEAL operational duties require exposure to marine environments, all of the materials chosen for our knives had to both function and not degrade upon exposure to salt water.


You may note that we were also the first company to use Nylatron washer bearings for that same reason. Although they may be smoother, bronze or brass washers degrade and oxidize almost immediately upon exposure to salt water. Just another reason that Emerson Knives are different from the other knife companies that just claim to be "hard core."


The lubricant that we use is a graphite grease impregnated with copper specifically used for its waterproof and stability (longevity) properties. This lubricant does not wash out or break down even under years of exposure.


I do not build knives for collectors or casual users. I build them for the hardest users and the most extreme environments on this planet.


The reason that there are people who take their Emersons apart to clean or re-lube is simply, because they can. Emerson Knives was the first Knife company to make knives that could be completely disassembled by the user. This was impossible for any other production knives at the time and voided the warranty for most production knives. Once again, knowing both the purpose and the environments our product would be serving, I built the knives to be just like a gun. You can take it apart, clean it, tune it and replace parts as needed. No other so called "hard core" knife company even understood that simple need.


On my own knives, I have never ever changed the lubricant on any of them and some I have carried daily for over 5 years. They are knives that I simply picked up off the assembly table and put into my pocket.


I build my knives to a different standard. A standard unknown or perhaps ignored by other knife companies and a standard probably not understood by those who are casual users of Emerson Knives. That standard is so that any and every Emerson Knife can be carried into the harshest and most extreme environments on this planet and perform anytime, anyplace, without concern.


So in the end to answer your question, what purpose does it serve? I hope I have given you an answer.


Thank you for your support of Emerson Knives.


My Best Regards,


Ernest Emerson
 
I'd like to see another run of Emerson Ti blades to go with the nylon washers.
 
^^
I like the way you think.

I'd also like a Ti liner opposite the lock side instead of SS. I live next to the ocean and have to clean rust off the SS all the time. Guess I need an older Emerson!
 
all newer Emersons have a Ti lockside and stainless steel non locking side

From the EKI FAQ page,

''Monday, April 29, 2013
We use Aerospace grade titanium on the spring/lock side liner. Titanium is the perfect material for that function and has all of the properties needed to perform the duties of a strong reliable locking liner system. The opposite side (non-lock side) is crafted from a 300 series stainless steel. This side of the knife functions as a handle frame stiffener and has a minimal mechanical function. The stainless steel is truly stainless. It will not rust and does not affect the overall performance, wear, or durability of the knife in any negative way.''
 
From the man:

Wasn't Bob Terzuola the one who pioneered Nylatron washers for use in folding knives back in the '80s?

Does NAVSPECWAR care about the non TI liner? I know that 300 series stainless is very corrosion resistant, but in my experience it will rust when exposed to saltwater, even just a bit.

While a few might need non rusting washers, 99% of us would be just fine with smooth, stiff, and durable phosphor bronze washer.

All I'm asking for is a post-sale factory option, not to change the entire system.
 
No offense but there a lot of people who think we should sell certain things because they think they have a better business sense then us. They seem to somehow know what we need to do more so than ourselves. If we did what every customer wanted we would go out of business. I'm sorry but I deal with this on a daily basis. "Why don't you guys do this?" Or " I think you should do this because you would sell so many!" Well guess what, you're not at risk if this fantastic idea fails. You don't have anything on the table. Just my opinion and not necessarily that of EKI's. To change washer materials is solely up to the powers that be. I don't know if EKI wants to get into the washer sales business. Maybe they'll experiment with trying the PB washers in the next production knife.
 
Instead of posting something like this, why not just buy the washers & install them yourself??

They certainly aren't hard to get.........

~John
 
There are other places you can get PB washers and the price is closer to $.09 than $5.
 
Man I love these damn knives. I just read through this thread and got all psyched up. I can tell they're purpose driven knives.

You can find any washer you want to put in these knives but in my experience the nylatron is the best. Not that I'm real experienced though. I have been testing the idea of keeping the factory grease in the knife too.

My Super has not been opened since I got it and still runs as smooth as silk. I love it! Give it a try with your next new Emerson. You'll see.

Remember, Ernie knows best when it comes to his knives.
 
I didn't mean for this thread to turn into a debate on whether or not nylatron is a good washer material, with all of the defensiveness and hurt feelings. I like both materials for different uses. It's pointless to debate which is better, as they are an 'apples and oranges' comparison.

No offense but there a lot of people who think we should sell certain things because they think they have a better business sense then us.

I'm not asking EKI to redesign a knife or change production, or trying to instruct you on how to make money, just a humble request to stock a cheap hardware part and charge enough to cover your costs to mess with ordering, stocking, and handling the additional parts.

I don't know if EKI wants to get into the washer sales business. Maybe they'll experiment with trying the PB washers in the next production knife.

I sure hope not, they're guaranteed to tick off everyone who likes them the way that they are.

This is why I'd never request that they change the current knives, only offer an option along with the skull pocketclips and whatever.

There are other places you can get PB washers and the price is closer to $.09 than $5.

Instead of posting something like this, why not just buy the washers & install them yourself??

They certainly aren't hard to get.........

~John

Please tell me where I can get, for example, 0.250 ID 0.500 OD 0.030 TK phosphor bronze washers, and I'll promptly order them.

I'm pretty resourceful, and have had plenty of success finding PB washers for Spyderco knives, but EKI uses some thick washers and I haven't even been able to find them, even from companies specializing in bizarre sized custom hardware for manufacturing dies and whatnot.
 
You can get 0.250" ID, 0.50" OD, 0.015" thickness Nylatron or PB washers from usaknifemaker. The Emerson washers are 0.030" thickness so I use 2 x 0.015" per side if I want them even smoother. PB or Nylatron, up to you.
 
Not too long, I just got some last week.

Edited to add:
I got the Nylatron ones, not the PBs.
 
I wouldn't mind phosphor bronze washers of the correct size.
I hate playing mix and match...just bugs me for some reason. I prefer one piece.
The Nylatron ones are working fine, but in general I like phosphor bronze better; simply preference, not a performance thing.
 
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