Why Firestels and such?

Normark said:
Hello

I know alot of people who carry a firesteel and don't know how to use it, or use it properly...


Eric
O/ST
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This is all too true.

I have to admit, for years I carried a firesteel as a "backup" and never used it. A couple years ago I figured it is best to start learning how to use it. Cotton balls and PJ and all that stuff is nice (way to easy :), but just another crutch and more stuff to carry. I learned the best use of stuff around me, what worked, what doesn't through LOTS of experimentation.

I have got so good at using one that the bic is now the backup : ) With the added bonus of I have a lot more confidence about the use of natural tinders.

If I want quick, fast and easy, I still have the bic. But, at least I have the knowledge for the old reliable.
 
I agree with your post Normark, but I don't agree with avoiding advances in technology just for the sake of practice. There's a reason why matches were invented. It was quicker and easier than a flint. There's a reason why lighters were invented. It was quicker and easier than a match. I could just as easily refuse to use my knife, and instead flintknapp a shard every time I wanted to cut something. Or in a modern setting, refuse to use a power drill because in case the power goes out I should be really good with an old hand-crank drill. It just doesn't make a lot of sense.

Yes, if you don't know how to use all your tools, then learn. But if I have a better, faster tool that does the same job, I'll use it.
 
While I prefer the dynamite and gas method of firestarting, the fire steel makes me feel safer when my fuse won't light. :D

Seriously, it's a cheap backup that works regardless of conditions. And it won't leak or run out of butane. That said, I help keep Bic in business with all the Minis I buy.

I carry three levels of firestarting: Bic Mini, waterproof matches, and a fire steel of some sort.
 
Normark said:
Hello

Noshtero..



Let me ask you...

Do you train, and train alot with a Firesteel ??

I know alot of people who carry a firesteel and don't know how to use it, or use it properly...

A Firesteel isn't one of those magical things that just because you own one, its a sure thing..

What I'm getting at is that unless you have intimate knowledge of the firesteel it doesn't mean you'll make fire...

I'm not sure why alot of people say the Firesteel is their "Backup" fire making source..

I think it is looking at a possible problem in reverse..

One should use the hardest method possible... If you can work a firebow,, which I still can't, time permitting, I would be using a firebow Constantly until I could do it in my sleep..

For me,, I don't have a problem with spark based methods. I'd say, the biggest problem, which really isn't a problem is finding the proper tinder to use with the steel itself...

So basically what I'm saying is use these prim fire making methods as your first line tools and keep the mindless matches and lighters as your backup...

At a recent Scout camp I promised to show a few people some different techniques, including firesteel,chemical, fire piston,electrical flint/steel and maginfying glass as well as flashlight reflector..Ended up with a crowd of 30 people by the time everyone told their friends about it...

There were several old timer Scouts there that carried a firesteel, however weren't using it properly,or didn't know how to use it. Several of them couldn't use flint/steel, had never seen fatwood,PCB's, or char cloth, and never even Thought about using steel wool..

You simply can't teach kids to make fire with a lighter. You are doing them a disservice...

If you are going to dabble in wildreness skills , knowing a firesteel well is an absolute Pre-Req!.


ttyle

Eric
O/ST
Click to expand...

The only 'problem' with that is that I go out into the woods (usually for more than a week) to smooth it, and resorting to fire-friction methods can be tiring or resorting to a fire-steel as a main fire source can be an unnecessary burden. :)

Even with one of these :D :p

Brantparkandminibow052.jpg
 
Noshtero said:
I agree with your post Normark, but I don't agree with avoiding advances in technology just for the sake of practice. There's a reason why matches were invented. It was quicker and easier than a flint. There's a reason why lighters were invented. It was quicker and easier than a match. I could just as easily refuse to use my knife, and instead flintknapp a shard every time I wanted to cut something. Or in a modern setting, refuse to use a power drill because in case the power goes out I should be really good with an old hand-crank drill. It just doesn't make a lot of sense.

Yes, if you don't know how to use all your tools, then learn. But if I have a better, faster tool that does the same job, I'll use it.
Click to expand...

See thats where you lose me, live practice is never a waste.

Do you shoot, do archery, tie knots, play guitar, etc?
Do you practice these skills?
Or do you just expect them to "be there" with no upkeep?

I look at the "practice" I get from working with other fire starting methods as more valuable than the results.
If I need fire now I'd use the easiest, and that would probably be a cut down road flare.
 
I suppose I've had better luck with a Zippo lighter than some here. My old Zippo has never failed me, and I've been carrying it since I won it in a poker game while stationed at Fort Gordon, Georgia, in 1959. (It was new and the soldier had bought it just the afternoon before at the PX. He tried to draw to an inside straight and didn't make it. )

I quit smoking in 1976, but that Zippo was always with me. I've carried it in all kinds of inclement weather, rainstorms, sleet storms, snow storms, desert heat, etc., in many western States, and in the swamps of the southeast both summer and winter. Never had a problem with it "making fire" in those weather conditions. (No, I've never turned over in a canoe on Lake Michigan, so don't worry about that to a great degree.)

As for a Zippo running out of fluid, there is a very simple solution to that. 1: Always refill it before going out into the boonies. 2: Long ago I started carrying two of the small 1/8 oz. Tobasco bottles, cleaned out, then filled with lighter fluid, in my kit. Do that and you'll not run out of fluid.

That said, yes, I carry a ferro rod and cotton/PJ, plus a waterproof match case with strike-anywhere matches. I'm into that "three's better than one" syndrome, as are most here. But I don't worry about my old Zippo letting me down, either. :thumbup:

FWIW.

L.W.
 
Hello

Noshtero...

Your missing the point completely..

However if you are satisfied with your skills with alternative firemaking,, then I guess thats up to you...

I'm not satisfied with just using a lighter, I want to learn All methods of firemaking,, because fire to me, is more than just getting one going..

I suspect it is the same for alot of folks here...

ttyle

Eric
O/ST
 
Normark said:
Hello

Noshtero..



Let me ask you...

Do you train, and train alot with a Firesteel ??

I know alot of people who carry a firesteel and don't know how to use it, or use it properly........


ttyle

Eric
O/ST
Click to expand...

Just fire-making in general-- making tinder, ignition sources, windbreaks, reflectors, etc, etc, etc. Most people don't have a clue on making a cook fire, which a bonfire is not!

For that matter, I've watched guys do horrible things to their knives in the process of "sharpening" them.
 
Wabajack said:
The only 'problem' with that is that I go out into the woods (usually for more than a week) to smooth it, and resorting to fire-friction methods can be tiring or resorting to a fire-steel as a main fire source can be an unnecessary burden. :)
Click to expand...

Just wondering but how is using a fire steel a burden?

I mean I can see if you are a smoker it is WAY easier to light a cig or a candle lantern with a bic than a firesteel:thumbup:

However lighting a camping stove or campfire with a firesteel for me is about as easy as using a bic.:confused:
 
The reason I asked to start with is that I saw that survival guy Bear... whatever the other night for about 10 min. He was in a jungle trying to start a fire with a firesteel. He had some dried grass but it was wet.He didn't get a fire going so he stuffed the grass in his shirt to keep warm.I was thinking this is the dumbest thing I've ever seen.If he was going to carry a firesteel and knife why not carry a Zippo.If I had been there with my Zippo we would have had a good fire.
 
you just said it right there....BEAR....look we all know bear grylls is the antithesys to les stroud. but what i got from that episode was an alternative to keeping warm not that he couldnt do it but he didnt devote the time to getting it going...yeah its possible like splitting wood and making fuzz sticks and such but it takes time, if you are gonna die of hypothermia it mayu not be the worst idea to isulate really good firast conserve heat and then go back to the fire...just my opinion
 
hollowdweller said:
Just wondering but how is using a fire steel a burden?

I mean I can see if you are a smoker it is WAY easier to light a cig or a candle lantern with a bic than a firesteel:thumbup:

However lighting a camping stove or campfire with a firesteel for me is about as easy as using a bic.:confused:
Click to expand...

Bic is easier. I don't really know how else to put it. If it doesn't work, as often happens in -30c weather, I'll reach for the firesteel. I don't find firesteels all that fun to play around with, I don't place to much value on practicing fire-craft when I actually need the fire, because when I do need a fire I'll use the easiest methods available and be gone with it.

I do realize that both methods work perfectly fine, I also realize that firesteels are very easy to use effectively, lighters are however easier and take less time in preparing materials so I am going to save myself time and burden of collecting materials when the lighter will light fire with more abundant and readily available fuels.

PS - I am quite proficient with "fire-craft" but I go into the wilderness to enjoy the wild not to play with fire. ;)

PPS - No I don't smoke. :)
 
non reliance on technology. a bic or butane lighter has many moving mechanical parts that "could" fail. Not to say you cant rely on them, there is nothing wrong with carrying these things in the bush. but for me, the less moving parts the better.

Its not a 'being cool" thing, its the same reason I choose to carry a small fixed blade over a folder for my primary knife. no moving parts to fail. and really, i find the firesteel does a better job of getting a fire going than a bic.
 
i use tham all equally...that way i am proficient in each of them...and since i love fire i get to use them alot.
 
I use a firesteel in the woods. While I don't always use them, I come prepared with a Zip-Loc bag full of dryer lint or waxed cotton balls, and some trioxane tabs(which I've never failed to light a fire with, regardless of conditions).
I do carry a couple of Bic lighters, as well.

I highly recommend trioxane tablets. You're not going to get much practice at primitive skills with them, but you'll always get a fire:)
 
I light all my outdoor fires with a fire steel, including my cigars. Every time I use it I am training with it, as Eric has mentioned.
The cool factor is a great high and it is just plain fun:)
 
MATCHES!! I have a little waterproof tube with some wood matches, cardboard matches+striker, and a mini bic, plus an old cigar tube filled with tinder. Its practically weightless, waterproof, and EASY. Firesteel I may learn one day, but its just not a priority.
 
+1 Normark :) This is the Survival forum, most of us are here to learn all we can about survival. I carry all the above means of fire making and am practicing bow drill and other natural ways.

In a short term survival situation, hours or days, my firesteel may be my best friend (if the fuels are unusable or expended) but if I can, I will use them all but a firesteel is very reliable.

I want to be prepared, with gear and more importantly with as much knowledge and skill I can learn. I know bics and fuels will run out eventually, and in a long term survival situation lasting weeks/months, or even longer, my firesteels will run out too. Then all I have left are the skills I've learned..
 
Aye Dantor...well said. Knowledge and ability are more important than the bits of hardware. But as you indicate, it is a good idea to carry 'quick' fire starting methods.
 
loki67 said:
See thats where you lose me, live practice is never a waste.

Do you shoot, do archery, tie knots, play guitar, etc?
Do you practice these skills?
Or do you just expect them to "be there" with no upkeep?

I look at the "practice" I get from working with other fire starting methods as more valuable than the results.
If I need fire now I'd use the easiest, and that would probably be a cut down road flare.
Click to expand...

I agree 100%. I am all for technological advancement, ie searching for a better knife, however when the price is loss of important survival skills then I draw the line. Many people no longer know how to start a fire without matches or lighter.
 
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