Why hand rubbed finishes?

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psycho78

Joined
Jun 17, 2006
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First of all I want to apologize for my n00bness. I dont mean to offend anyone or their methods, but....

Is it me....or do some hand rubbed finishes on custom knives throw some of you guys off?

For example, I have seen pictures and videos of the knifemaking process, and the blades look more attractive to me about 3/4ths into the process with a high grit belt finish. All the grind lines are crisp, and look really clean and polished, then the knife gets rubbed with a 400 grit piece of sandpaper with all these horizontal scratches. :confused:
 
I know what youre talking about. The reason for the hand rubbed finish is when the blade is dirty and gets cleaned off the tendency is to wipe it down horizontally which would scatch the heck out of the vertical grind lines. Personally I agree that a well done satin belt finish looks crisp and clean. I wish it would stay that way. I just finished a 9" double edge cowboy dagger and had it done with the hand rubbed finish but decided to go back to a 400 grit belt finish and finally an oiled scotch bright belt. It looks so good now. Maybe I can get a picture of it before it goes to Reno next weekend.
 
I think part of the problem is, there's no real solid definition for what a "hand-rubbed" or "satin" finish is. Some custom makers sell hand-rubbed blades you can read a newspaper in, and some manufacturers sell satin-finished blades that feel like a fingernail file on the flats.

Mr Bump is so right about the cleaning aspect; I have two production knives with a sort of mid-grade, cross-blade "satin" finish, and they indeed show the scratches where I've wiped the blades off. Pretty much any real-world use will show up on the blade, if you look at it cross-eyed in direct sunlight. Doesn't mean much to me, they're users, but that is a factor to a lot of folks.
 
I don't know what everyone else thinks but to me a "hand-rubbed" finish is a good working knife finish (4-600 grit) and a "satin" finish is fine enough to see some reflection in (800-1200 grit). Don't know if it's technically correct, but that's the system I use.
 
Yes Bruce, please post a pic. Personally I like a hand rubbed finish over buffed too, but I like a hand rubbed finish that the grain moves in the horiz. direction rather than vertically (spine to edge). Let me make sure I'm clear about what you guys like better(psycho & Bruce). Finish "lines" moving from spine to edge rather than from ricasso to tip ?
 
I like the spine to edge vertical lines. Finishes that are bright, but with subtle vertical scratches.

Kind of like a finish you'd see on a Dozier knife. Or a Phil Hartsfield.
 
I personally prefere the nice crisp grind lines,spine to edge anyday over a hand satin.i find they withstand scratch abuse better,and just look more rugged,if that makes sense!
 
With the mono carbon steel that many of us use here, I for one take my blades to full finish before heat treat. There are to be ZERO vertical lines when you heat treat. Good place for a stress riser to occur.
So, after I come out of temper, about all I have to do is remove quench scale, and my lines are already running horizontally.
A few guys give "hand rubbed" finishes a bad name by doing a sloppy job of it.
Just take your time, finish all of one grit before going to the next, stay straight, pull the full length of the blade.
 
I'll put in a vote for the handrubbed finish. For me, personally, a belt-finish across the blade (spine to edge) says "unfinished". But, that's just my personal taste talking. A well done handrub shouldn't hurt grind lines at all. If it did, then it wasn't done well.

Whatever you do, put it on nice. A sloppy finish makes me wonder about the rest of the quality of the knife, too.
 
What Fitzo said. I think machine finishes say "factory made". Hand rubbed says
"handmade".
Others mileage may vary... :)
 
i like the nice horizontal lines on most knives but sometimes i think a hollow ground would look better with up and down. also horizontal is custom only , ive never seen a factory blade with it.

brett
 
:confused: Bruce you mentioned an "oiled" scotch bright belt finish. I use scotch bright belts but have never tryed oil. How does the finish differ and what type oil do you use?

thanks
 
On this dagger I used a 5" wheel on the hollow grind and ran the grits all the way to 2000 (actually A6) and then went all the way back to a brand new Norax 400 and then simply WD40 on my gray scotchbright belt. It looks satin and bright. I think it shows off my grinding talent much more than a horizontal hand rubbed 500 grit finish. The ridge line in the middle is super crisp too. I followed the flat of the ricasso horizontally with just a couple passes on the ridge by hand too show the ridge even more.

I know, I know, Pics please. Hey Im image illiterate but Ill clean out the light box today
 
To me, a handrubbed finish is more visually appealing and shows a handmade piece whereas a peice with vertical grinds showing always screams "production piece" or "whipped this out in an hour"....not that either of those are always true, its just the impression that a blade left with grinder marks gives me.
 
In my opinion, there shouldn't have to be a choice of one over the other. I use both types for different orders and styles. I do agree with Bruce and have experienced the same things. It is possible for neither style to look finished if it isn't taken to a particular degree of polishing. Some h/r finishes look like a moped floor with out using a dry mop for the final moping, just a bunch of streaks, while vertical might look as someone else said like a "file". Seems to me that at times a combination of both will help in reaching a good finish, and there really aren't any really visible streaks (grind lines). Polishing begins at 220 and the finer the grit after that the closer the grind (polishing) lines until they are almost invisible to the eye. If you like what you are doing, chances are someone else will like it too. Over many years I have had a lot of people tell me how to sell knives, but none of them had ever owned any business. I guess they just weren't listening when I was telling them that I was "snowed under" with orders. Then there was the phase where everyone just had to shift from straight blade to folders or go broke. I just kept doing what I wanted and never noticed any change. That is why I say do what you like and it will sell. I do no believe that a hand rubed finish always takes longer than a good vertical finish because at different times I have found it to be the other way around.
Ramsey
 
Ramsey said:
In my opinion, there shouldn't have to be a choice of one over the other. ......
Click to expand...

You are exactly right, Ramsey. Finish is one of those matters of opinion, and as such there is no "right answer". It becomes a matter of personal taste and there is a lot of room for diversity. One of my favorite finishes is mirrored bevels and handrubbed flats. Two-tone really sets off grind lines, like Bruce mentioned.

The common agreement here is that whatever is chosen should be done well or it detracts from the knife.
 
Good points. I hope everyone takes my post as my own view and not as any kind of insult. Just because a particular finish style appeals to one person doesnt mean it will appeal to another.

Its also interesting to think that its actually easier to put a proper hand rubbed finish on a blade than a grinder finish. An 8 year old with some instructions and patience can put a perfect hand rubbed finish on a blade because there is no real skill to it beyond patience. I doubt that 8 year old could grind with an 800 grit belt and not royally fudge things up, though....

One thing hand rubbing has always taught me was that the finish I thought i had acheived on the grinder was never true. Ive taken blades past what i thought was 600 grit, only to find the truth when i began hand sanding. its amazing how much a million fine lines can hide until you switch directions.
 
Ramsey said:
In my opinion, there shouldn't have to be a choice of one over the other. I use both types for different orders and styles. I do agree with Bruce and have experienced the same things. It is possible for neither style to look finished if it isn't taken to a particular degree of polishing. Some h/r finishes look like a moped floor with out using a dry mop for the final moping, just a bunch of streaks, while vertical might look as someone else said like a "file". Seems to me that at times a combination of both will help in reaching a good finish, and there really aren't any really visible streaks (grind lines). Polishing begins at 220 and the finer the grit after that the closer the grind (polishing) lines until they are almost invisible to the eye. If you like what you are doing, chances are someone else will like it too. Over many years I have had a lot of people tell me how to sell knives, but none of them had ever owned any business. I guess they just weren't listening when I was telling them that I was "snowed under" with orders. Then there was the phase where everyone just had to shift from straight blade to folders or go broke. I just kept doing what I wanted and never noticed any change. That is why I say do what you like and it will sell. I do no believe that a hand rubed finish always takes longer than a good vertical finish because at different times I have found it to be the other way around.
Ramsey
Click to expand...

Well said!!

this is hallow grinding perfection (imo)

Now a nice hand rubbed flat grind is killer aswell!
 
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