Why I don't like back tools.

Stelth said:
Maybe if I understood the manufacturing process I'd understand Victorinox's decisions, but in my opinion they are not very responsive to customer suggestions. To the point of being stubborn. How hard would it be to put scissors on a Cadet? People have been begging for that option for years yet they continue to ignore that demand.
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YES,YES,YES,YES,YES,YES...!!!!!!!!!!
 
Lee D said:
Yes, PLEASE listen to us Victorinox, I vow to buy a dozen and gift half of them to friends and family who normally don’t carry a knife. I personally know three old timers that I’M positive will see the wisdom of a Cadet X. You are missing the boat on this one, guaranteed.

I apologize for derailing your thread Jacknife, frustration is starting to get the best of me.
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Lee, look at me, I'm serious. Don't apologize, I've been hoping, praying, cursing, and making sacrifices to the gods for the same thing!:mad:
:D
 
Stelth said:
Maybe if I understood the manufacturing process I'd understand Victorinox's decisions, but in my opinion they are not very responsive to customer suggestions. To the point of being stubborn. How hard would it be to put scissors on a Cadet? People have been begging for that option for years yet they continue to ignore that demand.
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I disagree.
Victorinox is probably very responsive to their customers.
And I'll bet that the Cadet doesn't even fall within the top 10 of all the models Victorinox sells.
And I'll bet that not many Victorinox customers are begging for a Cadet with scissors.
The members of this forum are a tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny tiny portion of Victorinox's market.

As for backside tools on SAKs...

Why not?
You have a Recruit...you add a phillips screwdriver and an awl, and now you have the Small Tinker...
What's the harm?
and extra 0.5 oz?

I can't even understand why Vic makes models with no backside tools.
It just seems like such a waste of opportunity to me.
 
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jackknife said:
I The corkscrew was just okay, ...Just didn't need a corkscrew that bad..
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i m with you on this!
i never had any use for the corkscrew.
until vic came up withe micro flat head
glasses screw driver.
it was only then, that the corkscrew finally
had a purpose - as a screwdriver rack holder.
yeah, those corckscrew can undo knots,
but hardly do i have to deal with knotty
situations.
so a cross head philips "back tool" i find
useful for whenever i require to punch
holes into cardboard or plastic bags.
now that you"ve pointed out its weakness
i'll be a little more careful with dense material.
 
Another not so nice use of the backside phillips...

Back when I was in the Army, there was a barracks fight between two soldiers.
One soldier punched the other and it made a big gash to the other soldier's face, and everyone immediately stopped the fight.
We all knew that a fist to the face doesn't cut like that.
The one that landed the punch had a Vic Tinker in his fist with the phillips protruding between his middle and ring fingers.
It made a wicked gash.
I imagine the corkscrew or awl would do the same.
 
I always wondered about that use. The Phillips on the 111mm Vics would be great for that.
 
allenC said:
Another not so nice use of the backside phillips...

Back when I was in the Army, there was a barracks fight between two soldiers.
One soldier punched the other and it made a big gash to the other soldier's face, and everyone immediately stopped the fight.
We all knew that a fist to the face doesn't cut like that.
The one that landed the punch had a Vic Tinker in his fist with the phillips protruding between his middle and ring fingers.
It made a wicked gash.
I imagine the corkscrew or awl would do the same.
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That was a little known semi secret from back then. The backside Phillips made an effective little stealth punch dagger. With khakis or other looser fitting pants wth the tinker in the right pocket, the Phillips could be pushed out with the middle finger while still in the pocket. If needed, it could be pulled and punched with very fast to make a very distinct impression on the joker giving you a hard time.

I know of this trick being used in the late 60's in Saigon and in Ciudad Acuna, Mexico, just across form Del Rio Texas in 1970. It is capable of doing a great deal of permanent damage it used on eye sockets, temple, throat.
 
I also heard of soldiers in Vietnam carrying their SAK hidden in their hand with the backside awl, either to punch or to deeply scratch the hands or arms of an attacker when they went out drinking. I personally wouldn’t use the awl, as there is a risk it could hurt you, too, if it lands at the wrong angle. The Phillips driver is far superior for use as a hidden fist load.

In the movie True Romance, Patricia Arquette uses the corkscrew on a SAK Spartan(?) to stab James Gandolfini’s foot. I’m not sure if the SAK corkscrew would penetrate the way it did in the movie, but you get the idea.

My only real complaint about Victorinox is that I wish they would go back to the tougher, less thinned-out scales on their cellidor models. I’ve never had issues with their smaller models (Executive, Classic, etc.). But on their standard-sized models I can feel the difference between the current ones and my older one from the ‘80s.

Jim
 
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Stelth said:
I think you'd risk killing someone by using it that way. Imagine a shot to the temple or eye. Nasty stuff.
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If you're being attacked, and the attackers are using any kind of impact weapon to render you unconscious, then they are risking killing you or even making you a drooling zombie in a wheel chair with brain damage. At that point, why have any feeling of mercy at all? They're more than willing to hurt/damage you in getting your wallet, so all bets are off. Once somebody opens the door to violent behavior aimed at you, they have no kick coming if things get a little more violent than they were planning on.
 
James Y said:
My only real complaint about Victorinox is that I wish they would go back to the tougher, less thinned-out scales on their cellidor models. I’ve never had issues with their smaller models (Executive, Classic, etc.). But on their standard-sized models I can feel the difference between the current ones and my older one from the ‘80s.

Jim
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YES! YES! YES!
 
Stelth said:
I think you'd risk killing someone by using it that way. Imagine a shot to the temple or eye. Nasty stuff.
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If it’s come down to an unavoidable situation, you gotta do what you gotta do. At the risk of going too far off-topic and sounding too Practac, in my younger, stupider years, I KO’d two different guys in fights with a single, open-hand slap. Note: ‘Fights’/mutual combat, not true self-defense situations. These weren’t “insult slaps” or “soap opera” slaps; they were short, full body torque slaps to the jaw/TMJ area, without risk of broken knuckles. No weapons at all. Luckily, they weren’t seriously hurt, but had their heads hit the ground badly (as could also happen with punches or anything else), it could have been potentially fatal. Anything you do could be ineffective, all the way up to lethal consequences. That’s why avoidance is best whenever possible (and if you are aware, it almost always is).

Sorry, now back to the subject: I love SAKs! :D But I still don’t prefer back-opening tools.

Jim
 
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jackknife said:
If you're being attacked, and the attackers are using any kind of impact weapon to render you unconscious, then they are risking killing you or even making you a drooling zombie in a wheel chair with brain damage. At that point, why have any feeling of mercy at all? They're more than willing to hurt/damage you in getting your wallet, so all bets are off. Once somebody opens the door to violent behavior aimed at you, they have no kick coming if things get a little more violent than they were planning on.
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I was commenting about the post by allenC, where two soldiers were fighting in a barracks. Obviously if it is a life-or-death self defense situation I would not have the same reservations.
 
GIRLYmann said:
i m with you on this!
i never had any use for the corkscrew.
until vic came up withe micro flat head
glasses screw driver.
it was only then, that the corkscrew finally
had a purpose - as a screwdriver rack holder.
yeah, those corckscrew can undo knots,
but hardly do i have to deal with knotty
situations.
so a cross head philips "back tool" i find
useful for whenever i require to punch
holes into cardboard or plastic bags.
now that you"ve pointed out its weakness
i'll be a little more careful with dense material.
Click to expand...

^ This for sure. I carry an 84mm Spartan (Tourist) around town, and usually move up to a Huntsman or Climber if we're traveling and/or out in the woods. The wife and I do drink the occasional bottle of vino, and there are usually a lot of glasses around (both prescription and sunglasses) so that little screwdriver is very handy.

I had a Soldier for a time, but it just felt to chunky in my pocket. I'd give some thought to carrying an 84mm alox model, but I think I'd miss the pen blade (Victorinox, please re-release the Cadet II!), and I know I'd miss the toothpick and tweezers.

Every SAK is a compromise and each has limits. Still -- and I know I'm preaching to the choir here -- they're amazingly handy little buggers! And it's great that they come in a "flavor" to suit most anyone.
 
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