Why is the Pile-side Stag Better looking?

[waynorth]

We have a lot of newer people on this forum, so I will define my terms!
The front of the knife is the shield side. and usually the main tang stamp side also.
In the cutlery industry, the front is referred to as the Mark side.
The back, or other side is called the Pile side. I don't know why, but it somehow fits (it is the bottom of the pile of pieces that make a knife)

I don't collect Stag knives specifically, but I have noticed on older knives, the Stag is often gnarlier/prettier on the Pile side, than on the Mark side. A knife producer told me, it is because it is much more difficult to fit the shield into gnarly stag, so the pieces were selected as follows; smoother on front/Mark, and rougher on back/Pile.

I don't have many Stags, and I am hoping some of you can give me examples of this phenomenon. I do have these five knives as examples. In each one, the Mark/shield side is much smoother and flatter than the pile side. Can anyone show me more, and hopefully older examples?

The top knife in each picture is a Schrade Cut Co, the next 3 are Case '47 patterns from the '50s to 1970. The last is a Case XX 5299 1/2.

Thanks!!

Mark sides;

Backsprings;

Pile sides;

 

[Modoc ED]

A knife producer told me, it is because it is much more difficult to fit the shield into gnarly stag, so the pieces were selected as follows; smoother on front/Mark, and rougher on back/Pile

As you stated Charlie, that makes sense but I can't say I've seen that in writing in any of the material I have. I only have one knife with stag covers and it is a GEC with knarly burnt stag on both the mark side and pile side.

Very nice knives.

 

[gbuskirk]

More texture against the palm of a right handed user. Fingertips on the smooth stag.

 

[quattromori]

Charlie,
it's like asking why the other queue is always faster...
There's no real solution for it (of course, the shield factor makes sense...but if you didn't put any shield, I suppose it would be the same), so just flip the knife over to stare

Fausto

 

[Bigfattyt]

I don't know. But I sure like looking at your knives!

 

[chuko]

This stag handled knife has the lesser stag (kinda flat) on the pile side with the nice stag on the mark side, but there is no shield. Charles

View attachment 274250View attachment 274251View attachment 274252View attachment 274253

 

[wardleather]

I don't have any good pics but I have a GEC Dogleg in primitive bone. The shield side is much smoother and less jagged than the pile side. In my opinion the shield side seems to have the nicer cut of bone.

 

[waynorth]

Interesting (and entertaining) remarks, and glad you like the knives.
Charles, it makes sense if there is no shield, to have the nicer piece on the Mark, I'd say.
gbuskirk, Bernie Levine once noted the gnarly piece was under the fingertips, for grip, but that was on several pruning knives, which are usually held blade in toward you.

We may never find it in writing anywhere, that is why I was hoping to see more examples. I think it is only significant with older knives though, 50 years and more.

 

[Railsplitter]

I have this old George Wostenholm. No shield but the mark side is clearly smoother.

 

[hlee]

This links to a thread that has what may be the the most academically satisfying explanation of why the pile side is the pile side. The "mark" is the stamping die and the "pile" is the anvil pillar on which the piece is struck.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...-question-PILE-SIDE/page1?highlight=Coin+pile

 

[Voodoosix]

my 2 stag knives are odd. 1 is a Case where the pile side is less gnarly than the mark side, the other is a GEC/NF is where the pile side is gnarlier... so much so that it feels like a chunk of the handle is missing or broken off.

 

[Hattie]

some def. of terms: http://www.assistedknife.com/index.cfm/fa/subcategories.main/parentcat/28243/subcatid/67105
Obverse Side - The obverse side is the front or display section of a knife. (the marked side, left hand side when held in right hand)
Pile Side (The Reverse side) - The reverse side of the blade, opposite of the obverse side.

IMO the obverse side is the side a right hander 'sees' most and is therfore often the prettier side.

i personally like well 'matched' sides with not too much differences in looks & texture. It is IMO the 'premium' solution . i have collector friends who have had their commercial knives rehandles because the scales didn't match.

'I thought i was wrong once, but i was mistaken.''

 

[kc custom]

Charlie I can't speak for manufacturers but if at all possible I always try to put the better
looking scale on the markside. No matter what the material. Think its got something to do with
the side of the knife you usually see displayed--shield, makers mark , etc. On the next thought
if the material is in any way questionable I'll also include a pile side photo.
Ken.

 

[waynorth]

Modern custom makers tend to put the best piece on the Mark side, in general.
Just to clarify, I am trying to verify a much older trend or custom.

Rick T, your knife verifies Bernie's comment; a working knife, which may have been intended for "pull" or "pinch" type cutting (note the curved handle), would have the gnarlier piece under the fingertips for grip. The curved handle is best suited for that type of cutting, hence pruning knives have curved handles, which fortuitously, also accommodate curved blades!

Any more examples, anyone??

 

[recon1s14]

It's probably caused a couple factors, one the mark side is smoother from the factory because on installation of the shield they sand down that side to make the shield more uniform to the handle, so that would play a big factor, but also because the mark side is the side that is handled most, fingers touch that side twice as much as the other side because that is the way the knife blade is pointed, so over time it would create that pocket worn look anyways.

Jus my 2 cents.

 

[smokinbasser]

I have always requested that the knives I have ordered have the most difference tween the mark side and the pile sides in appearance or texture.

 

[jon_slider]

> In each one, the Mark/shield side is much smoother and flatter than the pile side. Can anyone show me more

Here is my Case Stag Damascus Peanut. Its not old, but I think it shows a similar scale difference, smooth mark, rough pile side

> I think it is only significant with older knives though, 50 years and more.

no fair, I want to play.. maybe traditions that existed 50 years ago, are still influencing current builds

> I am trying to verify a much older trend or custom.

yes, and I like where you are going.. the pattern Im noticing is that the pile stag is deep canyon, and the mark stag is smoother. Another pattern I see is that the mark side is thicker than the pile side, both on your old knives, and on my newer one. This all makes sense in terms of selecting a shield friendly scale.

I personally prefer the deep canyon, but recognize it is not as appropriate for affixing a shield.

Thanks for the great photos of your 5 examples.

 

[jon_slider]

I recently picked up a second stag damascus peanut
the top one is the first one, the bottom one is the second one

I tried to show the difference in patina darkening of the damascus. The blades on the left are the second peanut, the new one. Its hard to show, but yes, the damascus does get a little darker with time and use.

 

[Peter Parker]

Charlie I'm so glade you started this thread, it should make for an interesting study! You've got I think more stag then I, and stag is my favorite handle material it's just a little hard to come by anymore(it seems)!
Out of the the four I have three have smoother front side, and one has a smoother pile side. The Case #47 is the only one with smoother pile side...

Unforunately I deleted my other side #47 image, on the #85 it's close but the front is smoother to me!
Redo(sorry); confused myseld and the older I get the more I do it!!

 

[smiling-knife]

One thing that comes to mind is that these modern knives seem to have a smoother mark side in order to accommodate a fully recessed shield. In days of yor, stag-scales knives often had no shield and those that did tended to have the shield protruding above the scale rather than flush.