Why is the price often removed?

[notdos]

Old prices typically do not have any bearing on current prices. In fact, I often see people trying to sell knives based on what a similar knife sold for months ago not realizing that the market for the particular maker is way up or or way down.

Phillip

 

[lwrhea]

I am learning something here. I have been taking the asking/selling price off after the sale, because that price might not apply in a few months and it would be better for a customer to email or call for the price. But, when you take into consideration that some makers have a two or three year waiting list, a projected price for that time period may be hard to nail down.
What if the maker posts a price range(not too broad), allowing for time and different handle materials? I actually have started doing this for hunting knives, because I figure they will be repeated.
I do understand the need or desire to know exactly what THAT knife sold for and will probably post that too. It takes a while for some of these changes to stream onto the website. I already have some of this inacted (before this thread got started), but it's not manifest as of yet. You can look for it soon.
Information is the operative word and I can see you need that as much as I do. However, I would encourage anyone who has any question at all about a maker's knives to write or call.
Good thread. Lin

 

[cockroachfarm]

"...But I see no good reason for the original asking price - stated in the most public fashion - to become a state secret once the knife is sold...."

I've never understood that either. For the same reason I don't understand why makers won't put prices on their table knives at BLADE. :thumbdn:

 

[mikeymoto]

I leave my posted prices as a reference for future buyers and sellers.

 

[RogerP]

But, when you take into consideration that some makers have a two or three year waiting list, a projected price for that time period may be hard to nail down.
What if the maker posts a price range(not too broad), allowing for time and different handle materials? I actually have started doing this for hunting knives, because I figure they will be repeated.

Good points Lin. I think that when waiting lists get that long (or even much more than a year) the maker should make it a matter of policy that the customer's order will hold his place on the delivery list. When his turn appraoches, but before work starts on his piece, he will be contacted by the maker and given a quote based on the pricing structure at that time. This way, the maker is not delivering a knife today at the price of three years ago. As an added bonus, you get to confirm that the customer hadn't fallen off the planet, AND confirm the details of his order before you have committed your valuable time and materials to his knife.

That said, I think makers very much SHOULD have pricing information on their sites. In the virtual world, this may be not only your first, but your only contact with a potential client. I know a lot of makers think "if they want to know the price, they can ask" - but let me tell you, a lot of customers who might be interested to know won't ask. They may be shy. They may feel embarrased about hearing a number they can't afford. They may be worried that contact on their part will initiate a hard-sell on your part. They may feel that you the information should darn well be there and they shoudn't have to do any "homework" to find out. Whatever the reason, rational or not, that customer will admire the pretty pictures of your knives and move on. Even a pricing range for a given model will give that window shopper the information he needs to maybe take the next step.

And Holger is SO right about visible pricing on show knives. Don't get me started...

Roger

 

[Kohai999]

And Holger is SO right about visible pricing on show knives. Don't get me started...

Roger

Get started all you want, Roger......here is the 411.....the pricing at shows is "fluid". Ya like that......in other words, many dealers, and makers will size you up, and tell you what the price is...it could vary as much as $50.00, either way.

AND....making and removing price tags is a PITA.....if you don't want to make the effort to ask about the knife....move on.

Best Regards,

Steven Garsson

 

[SharpByCoop]

He he he! Well, OK STeven. My wallet's appearance is also fluid to those dealers/makers who are sizing me up. I don't know one potential buyer who would think they would automatically get the low end price on a variable pricing scheme.

A flawed method, indeed.

Coop

 

[Kohai999]

He he he! Well, OK STeven. My wallet's appearance is also fluid to those dealers/makers who are sizing me up. I don't know one potential buyer who would think they would automatically get the low end price on a variable pricing scheme.

A flawed method, indeed.

Coop

You would.....the way it would work, is I might say....."Coop, that knife would cost Joe Blow $500.00, but you can have it for $450.00"...and it would be the truth.

It might be flawed, but welcome to knife shows, Mr. Cooper....Ain't the most FUNCTIONAL place on earth.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[SharpByCoop]

Yes, true. And I know you would to me in sincerity.

What I am referring to, and you are alluding to, is Mr. Hypothetical Unknown dealer/maker and their pricing system.

You see, I have an antidote for ANY fixed price tag on a knife. It's really simple, and often effective: "What's the very best you can do?"

That line works wonders, as it leaves the power of the 'deal' back in the seller's hands, and shows you are an interested and ready buyer.

I'd druther have it that way. But, I see the rewards in an unpriced system. Just not fully sure if I would always win that lottery.

Coop

 

[pkdmslf]

Personally, I prefer to have the final selling price removed and "SOLD" in it's place. Privacy after the sale. I believe if the new owner decides to sell in the future and someone is able to backtrack and find out what someone paid for a given knife, opens the door for some potentially unnecessary grief. Albeit, it shouldn't matter, but it could.

 

[Les Robertson]

As one who sells on a public site in the aftermarket I can tell you the reasons I put SOLD on many of the knives.

1) The knife is a consignment knife and I cannot get another one any time soon.
so I mark it SOLD.

2) The "fluid" situation of the custom knife market, relative to about 25 makers, makes a price basically just guess. So it is better to remove the price.

3) People generally don't mind paying less. However, if the fluidity of the market demands a higher sale price (due to the fact you paid a higher purchase price), then some people complain you are not matching the previous price.

A mistake a lot of knife makers make is listing a price for the knife in a magazine ad. What happens is 10 years later someone places an order and expects to get the 10 year old price.

4) Because it is time consuming to create pages for the site. I will mark a knife marked and keep the page up, instead of deleting the whole page and having to start over again if I get another knife from that maker.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com

 

[bgspecialk]

A lot of good explanations here for the reasoning behind pulling the sales price of a knife from an ad once the knife is sold.
Personally I prefer to see the sales price remain. I can go to the internet and find historical averages and graphs for mutual funds, bond funds, treasury bills, etc., but no such luck with knives.
Perhaps if some of the "mystique" were removed from knife purchases it would be good for all.

Paul

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi Paul,

Careful. You are using "investment" tools for a comparison. As it has been hashed out to death on this forum....Knives are not investments.

Actually when searching out prices....your first email or phone call should be to the maker.

Then it is up to you whether you want to pay the premium (if there is one) or not.

As we all know, many of the after market prices for the 25 hot makers are not necessiarly reflective of what the makers price is or the knife's price 6 months ago.

Two perfect examples are Onion and Boguszewski knives. While Ken and Phil have no influence on the after market prices many of the knives from these makers have been steadily coming down.

So if I had a Onion on my site that I sold 18 months ago, that price would not be reflective of what the market price is now.

This may give some one a false sense of fiscal security. When the reality is that the knife is worth 25% less than they think it is.

I think many people want to know what the price was for a knife that was sold originally and then being offered again. So they have an "Easy" way to price check.

I go back to my earlier statement. Check with the maker first. Then decide if you want to pay the price (lower or higher).

I have people email me all the time wanting to know the price of a knife. Usually they just say: "how much is X knife". No "Hi" or "Please" or "Thank You", etc.

I let them know that their demeanor tells me they want to enter into a business relationship. I quote them $10 per price.

This goes back to STeven's "Entitlement" mentality. I guess they figure they are entitled to "Free" information.

No those who tell me who they are and what they are looking for..I give them my best answer I can based on the information for that day.

But the truth changes.

Any way, it is up to the buyer to determine if the price is right!

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com

 

[RogerP]

Get started all you want, Roger......here is the 411.....the pricing at shows is "fluid". Ya like that......in other words, many dealers, and makers will size you up, and tell you what the price is...it could vary as much as $50.00, either way.

STeven, yes - I am familiar with the practice -only I would suggest thet variance could well be greater than $50. Which is why I like posted prices. I'd rather buy from makers who put some thought into their pricing structure - and stick to it - rather than varying their price based on their perception of the depth of my pockets. These are often the same makers who will look you up and down and not give you the time of day if they decide you don't "look like you can afford" their knives. Nope - not my game at all.

Just to be clear - I am not referring here to a maker who gives a kid a break on price, or who gives a special accomodation to a repeat customer. Neither act of generosity or goodwill is precluded by posting a price.

Here is the situation. I walk up to a maker's table at Blade and see a nice little damascus hunter. It's not a maker I have bought from in the past, he doesn't sell much through dealers and his output is sufficiently low that there aren't many knives of his in the secondary market. I have an idea of what I think the knife should be, but I have no idea what he is asking. He's tied up with a customer who is regaling him with some endless tale of days gone by. If I could see that the price is at or below my "pull the trigger" point, I will stand there and wait until bubba blowhard is through and make a purchase. Am I likely to wait around just for the privelege of asking the price? Well - it's a REALLY big show, ya know.

Roger

 

[bgspecialk]

Hi Les,
One of the things I know I can count on from you is GOOD information.
And that information has helped me more than once in deciding what knife I
I would next add to my collection. ( Thank you!!)

The business I'm employed in , mortgages , is witnessing tumultuous
changes on a daily basis. The lenders that are port folioing they're loans are
able to see the results of they're business decisions almost immediately and
are able to respond to market conditions much more quickly than the lenders
that are relying on others for they're information.

I think that we may be discussing the same thing here. That is that good
and current information is always helpful.

Whether knives are collectibles, investments, commodity's or simply tools,
the sale of them is still a business, and good business practices will never
go out of style.

Welcome back and Happy New Year Les.

Paul

 

[Les Robertson]

HI Paul,

You are welcome.

When I first started collecting knives I ordered every catalog I could get from every maker I was interested in, so I knew their prices.

There wasn't much after market information then. What helped me is knowing the makers price.

With few exceptions, the knives for sale or knives that you can order are at the makers price.

Those with the sold sign's, even if they are from makers I can get knives from. They take so long I don't want to quote a price as it may be different when the knife finally shows up.

I understand from a collector basis why you would want to know the prices of knives previously sold.

I just listed why I put SOLD signs on the knives on my site.

NOTE: I can't think of a collector that has asked me to take the price off the site to protect their privacy.

As well I am a little spoiled. I have done my homework for so long I can look at a knife and combine a makers position in that market and have the price. Whether that is the makers price or not is inconsequential. It is what I will pay for a particular knife.

This is especially helpful in Roger's scenario about trying to figure out a price on a knife.

Also, note that professionals price their knives. I don't waste time trying to "Size someone up". The price is the price.

My advice to new makers is to price them on Friday at what you would sell them for on Sunday. Stick to your price. You may take a few home, but eventually your price will become known as the "price" and this will eliminate "haggling" at the show.

Then again, it is the makers knife and he/she can sell them for whatever they want.

Most new makers overprice their knives, primarily because they do not know what their position in the market is.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com

 

[RogerP]

NOTE: I can't think of a collector that has asked me to take the price off the site to protect their privacy.

I find this quite interesting, as you have sold one or two knives in your time. Perhaps this "protection of privacy" thing is more notional than real.

Also, note that professionals price their knives. I don't waste time trying to "Size someone up". The price is the price.

My advice to new makers is to price them on Friday at what you would sell them for on Sunday. Stick to your price. You may take a few home, but eventually your price will become known as the "price" and this will eliminate "haggling" at the show.Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com

Precisely.

Roger

 

[Les Robertson]

HI Roger,

I agree with your assessment of the "notion of privacy".

The only way someone knows who bought a knife is if they then put it up for sale or trade shortly after they buy it.

Apparently some of the members here are not concerned about their privacy as they are quick to show off their most recent purchase(s).

While there are most certainly areas in which privacy is essential. I think that will all the "ID Theft" privacy that has become a "buzz word" for many areas. That may or may not really need concern about privacy.

As a buyer I am more concerned that my payment information is secured than my identity as someone who bought X knife.

Les Robertson
Custom Knife Entrepreneur
www.robertsoncustomcutlery.com

 

[BlazenGem]

I think it is also because the value of knives rise and fall.

For example, lets say a maker is not taking orders for a highly demanded knife anymore, then the prices will rise fast (Lochsa, XM-18).

Or maybe due to soem problems with the maker, manufacture (*cought*gerber), the demand lowers and so does the price.

I think it is to make the market more balanced and knives correctly priced.

 

[on_the_edge]

As one who sells on a public site in the aftermarket I can tell you the reasons I put SOLD on many of the knives.

1) The knife is a consignment knife and I cannot get another one any time soon.
so I mark it SOLD.

Couldn't you just mark it as sold and leave the price, regardless of whether that was the actual price paid by the buyer? (Sorry, Les, but never having gotten a knife from you, I don't know whether your prices are firm or you are open to negotiation on them, although my sense is that they are probably firm )

2) The "fluid" situation of the custom knife market, relative to about 25 makers, makes a price basically just guess. So it is better to remove the price.

With all due respect, it being better to remove the price is your opinion. I think the price should stay. Still, if it is just basically a guess, I would rather have a guess from you with your knowledge (ie. a reason to leave the price up on your site) than from other folks, most of whom don't have your knowledge. And while I am all for a buyer doing his homework, I don't think it has to be unnecessarily burdensome. In some cases, speaking from personal experience, I have found very little on a maker's prices. Take a Joe Cordova or a CH Morris and try to find a lot of info about their knives and the prices they might command. Good luck!

3) People generally don't mind paying less. However, if the fluidity of the market demands a higher sale price (due to the fact you paid a higher purchase price), then some people complain you are not matching the previous price.

Actually, I start asking questions if there is a good-size shift in price in either direction. To me, a much lower price is at least as much of a concern as a much higher price, but not for $$$-related reasons. I ask myself, "Ok, what's wrong with this picture? Is this knife damaged, etc.?"

4) Because it is time consuming to create pages for the site. I will mark a knife marked and keep the page up, instead of deleting the whole page and having to start over again if I get another knife from that maker.

And I like that you do this. Still, I would like it even more if your asking/selling price was up there too.

Chris