Why is thin not a Busse quality?

Marion David Poff

Marion David Poff

Joined
Oct 8, 1998
Messages
5,403
Good Day,

The thread about the Mean Street made me think about my dream Busse, a 5/32 inch satin Mean Street.

That got me thinking about thin in general...

And the question presents itself, why is thin not a quality available in Busse products?

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Marion David Poff aka Eye mdpoff@hotmail.com

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This probably isn't the answer you are looking for but it is the only one I know. From what I understand the Manufacturer that makes INFI is only able to produce it in 1/4". All the Lean Mean Streets had to be ground to 3/16". I hope that is of some help. Or did I completely misunderstand your question?


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Eric Isaacson
 
Simple answer is that thin knives break far sooner than thicker knives. Also, many Busse users abuse these knives far more than normal people, and Jerry would go broke replacing these knives, because he has such a great warranty.

Darkjedi-"Long Live Jerry Busse, the Master Yoda of knife making."
 
Something I picked up from looking thru the past posts.

Aside from 250" stock, there was the .230" stock used on the Desert Warfare Mean Street. I believe this was the thickness that was actually received from the manufacturer.
Then, the .230" stock, was ground down to the .187" used for the Lean Mean Street. Therefore, the higher retail on the LMS ($227, as opposed to $197 for the MS and DWMS).
 
Two aspects which would seem to argue in favor of the potential success of thinner Busse's, in terms of strength, are the relatively thin edge bevels applied to Busse blades in general and the successful use of INFI for swords in particular.

Cliff Stamp has reported anecdotally on his brother doing chin-ups off the handle of a Busse blade that was supported only by the edge, which I believe had been driven into a tree. Also, many of the tests cited in Busse comparison advertising would seem to add weight to the proposition that thinner Busse's would still exhibit nuclear strong qualities.

Secondly, blade breakage, resultant from snapping a blade by flexing it, would seem to be only a matter of leverage. If you had the same blade-thickness to blade-length ratio in a 10-inch knife that Jerry has used in swords such as RYU's new one, the blade would be very thin indeed. Also, it would seem that a thinner blade would have a greater tendency to bend than to break.

Of course, this may be the problem, as INFI is so flexible that its own ductility might become a problem below a certain thickness range.

Good question, Eye. I'd like to hear the answer, too. Maybe when Jerry finishes up with BLADE and sends me my Battle Mistress, he'll have time to hold forth on the subject.

-w
 
There would be a loss of strength in going to 1/8" or so, and it would be a very significant one, however Busse Combat has released 3/16" versions of the larger blades before, so as Will noted a thinner shorter one has a similar strength when you consider leverage issues. There is of course as also noted in the above the issue of getting the steel. As far as I know, Busse doesn't actually get 3/16" steel but grinds down 1/4". If you apply the same process to ~1/8" stock you are basically more than doubling the cost of the steel. You need to buy the stock twice as thick as necessary and then spend the time and abrasives to grind it away.

As well, for the kinds of knives that Busse Combat currently produces, INFI is a very good steel choice. However the same set of properties that make INFI a great choice for a larger blade are not going to be optomized for a smaller one. There are simply better steels out there for light use blades. Now if you wanted a heavy duty thin blade, INFI would be a good choice and could take quite a bit more than say CPM-10V. However in ~1/8" stock, even INFI would break readily if you tried heavy prying or similar, and full grinds would leave a very weak edge regarding hard impacts.

What I would suggest is to get a Busse and modify the edge profile. Bring it down to about 10 degrees with a light convex taper. It will cut very well on all but very binding materials, yet be very strong because of the thick spine and the edge will be well supported because of the thickness of the stock behind it, so prying/hammering etc., will not be a problem. This obviously won't work if you want a thin machete class blade as it doesn't get rid of the main problem which is the weight of the stock, but on a small blade it will give very high performance cutting on a wide class of materials without giving up too much durability.

There is a trade off of course, a thinner stock will allow a thicker edge at the same level of cutting performance. So that blade would have a more durable edge, but a weaker primary grind. The ground down edge on the thicker blade would have a weaker edge, but be more durable in extreme cases (damage above the edge grind, as well as prying/torques).

-Cliff


[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 06-11-2001).]
 
The thinnest that we are able to get INFI made is .230". We must pay much more for this thickness. Our normal stock is .265". In order for us to offer anything thinner, we must grind down to the chosen thickness. In order to do this effectively and correctly the steel must be continuously flipped over so that even amounts are taken from each side. If not, dangerous levels of stress can be introduced into the steel, and, in spite of stress relieving, severe warpage and twisting can take place during the heat-treating process. The mill that we purchase from is unable to process INFI any thinner than .230" and thus the overall thickness of INFI blades.

Yours in nuclear stock removal,

Jerry Busse

[This message has been edited by Jerry Busse (edited 06-15-2001).]
 
Darn..... Sounds like dem Busse folk really know what they're do'in when it comes to makin' those choppers
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-Seth
 
[Okay, I'll ask the question before the rest of you mental patients get loose.]

Hey Jerry, when are we going to start seeing some .465" thick BM-Es?
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Semper Fi

-Bill

[This message has been edited by Bronco (edited 06-14-2001).]
 
Hey Bronco,
I bet he is keeping that available for the folder.
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Eric Isaacson
 
Bronco,

.465"? . . . . errrrr. . . . hmmmmm. . . Whatever are you talking about?

Yours in nuclear typos,

Jerry Busse
 
What, .465" was a typo? Rats, I was afraid of that. I hereby formally offer up my condolences to the legions of Busse forumites who were just thrown into a nuclear depression upon hearing of this correction.
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Semper Fi

-Bill
 
Sounds like a nice stout round--a smidgen above a .460 Wby. Probably get over 10,000 ft. lbs. of energy at the muzzle--definitely Busse territory.
 
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