Why Is This Forum So Dead?

[SShepherd]

Machete's, hangers, and sidearms are frequently discussed under knives. These are primarilly tools, like large camp knives and khukuries.

Swords, on the other hand, are obsolete weapons.

Real historical swords are scarce and expensive, and generally purchase by collectors who are more interested in preserving them as historical relics, rather then fencing with them. The discussion around these things center on history, ethnographics, markings and such, and can be very esoteric.

That leaves the reproduction swords used by martial artist, or re-enactors; the ultra-expensive art fantasy pieces, and the mass quantity of cheap and dangerous sword-like wall decorations. Once again, a very divergent set of interests which are hard to approach in a general forum like this, without a great deal of frustration.

n2s

What do you mean by "historical swords?

 

[SShepherd]

I think N2S pretty much have this one pegged.

My thoughts on the matter.

Firstly sword enthusiasts are a very small subset of the bladed community, therefore on a general blade board the participation is going to be correspondingly small. I believe that this is true for two reasons:

First it is because of the relative cost of the respective items. In my opinion reasonable user quality production swords start at or around 300 dollars. This far exceeds the cost of your average production knife. Good quality production swords cost in the 500 to 1500 dollar range which is easily in the custom knife range and custom swords are typically 1500 to 10000 dollars or more which exceeds everything but high end custom knives. Ergo there is going to be a smaller market at all levels.

Second swords are not exactly utilitarian are practical objects in today's world.

Additionally, there are boards that cater exclusively to sword enthusiasts, most sword enthusiasts are going to post about swords there rather then scouring the internet for knife boards with sword sub forums.

Finally the questions here do tend to get more repetitive then in other venues probably because of the segment of the population that mostly finds itself here, i.e. knife guys who find an interest in swords. I can't count the number of times over the years on this board someone has jumped on here to ask if this or that low end, cheaply priced chinese / pakistani / indian / filipino sword is worth the money. All they want is a yes or no. The answer is of course "yes." They are worth what you pay for them..... but one should wonder what they are really getting for that price... and somehow everyone always ignores that last bit. They are are merely happy to know that if they are spending "all that money" that they are getting what they pay for.

The other standard post is from the katanaphile telling us how incredible his katana is and that the katana is the "best sword ever." That one too gets old. At some point one starts wondering about the point of tilting at windmills...

or titanuim katanas.....or the "but I saw someone do it on TV"

 

[nikoknife48]

I have always been a fan of the blade small and large. The first time I saw swords of any substance where from my buddy J. Paranee's collection. Swords command a great deal of respect, intense concentration and seriousness when handling them. There is also a spirital zen like feeling once you experience the proper usage of a 28 inch long razor blade. I feel Shinkendo (Japanese Swordsmanship) is a great practice to learn and it will give you the discipline and knowlege you need to further increase your interest with the sword. Steven it was great talking to you and thanks for also renewing our interest.

 

[Kohai999]

....I feel Shinkendo (Japanese Swordsmanship) is a great practice to learn and it will give you the discipline and knowledge you need to further increase your interest with the sword. Steven it was great talking to you and thanks for also renewing our interest.

Nick,

Shinkendo was invented/implemented by Toshishiro Obata-san in 1990. Many of the "pure" forms of Japanese Sword Arts go back to between the 15th and 17th centuries...it is this connection with the ancient ways that really appeal to many of us that practice.

I hope you find a path that draws you deeper into the true passion of "The Compassionate Sword".

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[chuckinohio]

What do you mean by "historical swords?

I believe that he meant an sword actually crafted during a certain period in history. Substitute the word Authentic, Antique, Vintage, or Relic and you will be correct. Basically a sword that is from the 11th, 12th, 13th century etc.

Some swords today are crafted to match Historically established patterns or molds so as to lend a semblance of realism to the reenactor or the practitioner of a martial art.

Some guys just buy stuff that appeals to them regardless of Historical significance or basis in real events. There are many well made functional swords produced that have no precedent, or basis in existing patterns.

For instance-

I bought this sword based solely on its looks, and as it turns out it is a lively blade and cuts very well. Four hundred years from now when they excavate my house, it will be considered historical.

Chuck

 

[chuckinohio]

it is this connection with the ancient ways that really appeal to many of us that practice.


Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

I find that I can understand civil behavior being paramount in ones mind when interacting with gentlemen who are armed with yard long pieces of sharpened steel that they may be very proficient with.

It connects one with a time when ones service was all that one had to worry about. Your word, your honor, and your actions towards others were what made the measure of the man.

Modern society has sacrificed much in the name of progress.

Chuck

 

[SShepherd]

I believe that he meant an sword actually crafted during a certain period in history. Substitute the word Authentic, Antique, Vintage, or Relic and you will be correct. Basically a sword that is from the 11th, 12th, 13th century etc.

Some swords today are crafted to match Historically established patterns or molds so as to lend a semblance of realism to the reenactor or the practitioner of a martial art.

Some guys just buy stuff that appeals to them regardless of Historical significance or basis in real events. There are many well made functional swords produced that have no precedent, or basis in existing patterns.

For instance-

I bought this sword based solely on its looks, and as it turns out it is a lively blade and cuts very well. Four hundred years from now when they excavate my house, it will be considered historical.

Chuck

understood.

I thought he was meaning swords that had a "battle pedigree", those are pretty rare and expencive. Fortunatly, you can still buy many nihonto from the 17 and 18th cent. that are reasonably priced. They may not be from a well known smith, but they are very nice for them money and some can be used for iai or tameshigiri

 

[C.S. Graves]

Jeez. That's what made you duck and cover? There's all kinds of grenades in that post that no one has gone ballistic about yet. Must not be enough traffic in that sub forum...

I figured the Kult of the Katana has much zeal... and many katana! And well, I barely survived that "why all the fuss about the Katana" thread.

But yeah, I see potential controvesy in the more "practical tactical" aspects you touched upon.

I find that I can understand civil behavior being paramount in ones mind when interacting with gentlemen who are armed with yard long pieces of sharpened steel that they may be very proficient with.

I think R.E. Howard touched upon that idea... something about "a civilised man is less polite than a so-called savage, because he needn't worry about getting his skull smashed if he doesn't choose his words carefully".

 

[chuckinohio]

I figured the Kult of the Katana has much zeal... and many katana! And well, I barely survived that "why all the fuss about the Katana" thread.

That thread was remarkably restrained considering that one could sense the frustration and pent up WTFs coming through in the posts. Actually there was some info to be gleaned, and some opinions to discount, and some outright lunacy. Pretty much like every thread on BF!!

I think R.E. Howard touched upon that idea... something about "a civilised man is less polite than a so-called savage, because he needn't worry about getting his skull smashed if he doesn't choose his words carefully".

Thats it in a nutshell, nothing like the immediate threat of dismemberment to give a fellow pause.

Chuck

 

[Stacy E. Apelt - Bladesmith]

I visit this forum every day or two. I find the same posts,...." check out my XXXX sword that i got for $100/ what is a really good sword for $200/ etc....". I make swords and know people who collect and use them. A real sword is a real weapon and is not the same thing as a SSO.It takes up to several hundred hours to make a quality sword. I agree with the earlier poster that the Dorm sitter/mall ninja posting keeps me from commenting. My least favorite post type is the...." I'm going to go it in the woods and hack at trees....". People who do this sort of thing are the ones who purchase the swamp rat and think it is a classic sword.

Sorry to sound like a sword snob, but there is a vast canyon between the two types of sword users/admirers.

Stacy

 

[aleyn1975]

Not snobby at all bladsmth. I definitely want the RAT wak, I've enjoyed my Chen pseudo dao and might get an HI sword at some point. But I would not take these to a sword fight, I take them to goof around in the woods. They are more like machetes heavy on the offense. I'm quite sure those guys in the old days knew what they were doing when they made adequate hand protection built in to a sword. I'm sure those who didn't use such a sword lost a few fingers and shortly thereafter, their lives.

 

[not2sharp]

Not snobby at all bladsmth. I definitely want the RAT wak, I've enjoyed my Chen pseudo dao and might get an HI sword at some point. But I would not take these to a sword fight, I take them to goof around in the woods. They are more like machetes heavy on the offense. I'm quite sure those guys in the old days knew what they were doing when they made adequate hand protection built in to a sword. I'm sure those who didn't use such a sword lost a few fingers and shortly thereafter, their lives.

I believe Bladsmth's point is that if can be used to chop a tree, then it is not a true sword. At least not a fighting sword; although, there have always been sword-like hangers and sidearms made primarilly as tools, but intended to provide some form of rudimentary defense.

examples: (these are mostly 19th century)

However, we should never confuse these with a true sword, which is always a highly engineered item designed to be:
1) Light and fast
2) Sharp
3) Highly flexible (think high tensile spring) - with different preferences for Strong, Half-Strong, Half-Weak, and Weak portions of the blade.
4) Well balanced

They were designed to be used to kill people by someone who is highly trained to wield it. Prying, chopping, and edge-to-edge impacts would always destroy the thing. You might as well beat on a tree with a violin.

n2s

 

[stefanj]

Because swords cost so much to get a accurate and truly strong/acceptable user.
Bowies by master smiths run $1K and up. How much would a sword of such caliber cost?

 

[aleyn1975]

Agreed not2sharp. The attributes that would make these a descent tool (blade heavy, deeper and thinner bevel) would hinder it in combat. It definitely takes more than a hand guard to provide defense. I think the main difference (and you can certainly tell when you hold an accurate representation of a sword) is one is designed to be a useful tool you COULD use as a weapon. A sword in the historical sense was absolutely designed to kill people period.

 

[chuckinohio]

Because swords cost so much to get a accurate and truly strong/acceptable user.
Bowies by master smiths run $1K and up. How much would a sword of such caliber cost?

It is all in user expectations.

You can get a fairly accurate example of many historical swords for under $500.00, some can be had for under $300.00 and they will be functional swords. Something that you can set out to chop every plastic bottle in half with, or clean out your local den of highwaymen.

Now when you start talking about customs, the price point changes considerably, and the sky is the limit as with everything else. You can get very accurate renditions of a certain pattern or type of sword, plain jane or embellished to your hearts content, as long as your purse is capable of supporting your lust.

Do you have a particular pattern or style of blade that you like? I could be more specific with examples if so.

Chuck

 

[stefanj]

It is all in user expectations.

You can get a fairly accurate example of many historical swords for under $500.00, some can be had for under $300.00 and they will be functional swords. Something that you can set out to chop every plastic bottle in half with, or clean out your local den of highwaymen.

Now when you start talking about customs, the price point changes considerably, and the sky is the limit as with everything else. You can get very accurate renditions of a certain pattern or type of sword, plain jane or embellished to your hearts content, as long as your purse is capable of supporting your lust.

Do you have a particular pattern or style of blade that you like? I could be more specific with examples if so.

Chuck

The Katana would be one I am very interested in as I believe are most people since it holds a certain mistique about it as well as a truly defining heratige in the warrior culture imo.

 

[Kohai999]

The Katana would be one I am very interested in as I believe are most people since it holds a certain mistique about it as well as a truly defining heratige in the warrior culture imo.

The range on a custom, fully mounted katana made by someone like Bailey Bradshaw, MS could run anywhere from $3,000-$6,000+, depending upon many variables.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Duzzy]

I've seen some katana at over $17,000. Although that's significantly more than I, or most people, would probably ever spend.

 

[SShepherd]

I've seen some katana at over $17,000. Although that's significantly more than I, or most people, would probably ever spend.

I have, and I'm sure Steven has also, handled japanese blades 3x that price.
LOL....I even had the opportunity to handle a nihonto in Japan that was priced at 120k

 

[chuckinohio]

For an entry level Katana at an affordable price, I would look at the Paul Chen blades. They are consistently reviewed well and seem to dominate the market. The prices start at around $250.00 and go up depending on your tastes.

Bugei Trading Co. has some very nice Katanas for sale on their site. Their selling point is that they claim to use each one, define its strengths and weaknesses, and hand pick the blades that they sell. Their feedback on several sites seems to be impeccable.

If you want a usable Katana that you can flog the snot out of for a cheap price, go Musashi, Masahiro, or Dynasty Forge. Good blades, but dont expect quality fittings, or exhibition quality polish.

If you are looking for a one off, traditionally forged katana I would suggest PMs to some of the more learned members here. There is much Katana Fu floating around in this forum.

Chuck

Chuck