Why isn't the entire axe head hardened?

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I've cracked an eye during wedging. It happens. You want toughness not hardness in the eye.

Also, many of us have found old axes with cracked eyes. I think that many of these are caused by an old rotten handle wicking up water and then freezing. Several of the cracked eyes I've found still had rotten sponge-like wood in the eye. Imagine an axe left leaning against the shed for several years close to the drip line of the roof. After a few years.......bingo! Cracko!
 
Square_peg said:
I've cracked an eye during wedging. It happens. You want toughness not hardness in the eye.

Also, many of us have found old axes with cracked eyes. I think that many of these are caused by an old rotten handle wicking up water and then freezing. Several of the cracked eyes I've found still had rotten sponge-like wood in the eye. Imagine an axe left leaning against the shed for several years close to the drip line of the roof. After a few years.......bingo! Cracko!
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We started building a pole barn last November. We fastened the bottom pressure treated band with 3 1/2" torx drive screws, putting 5 screws through the band into each 6X6 post.

We had an Arctic blast during January and didn't work on the barn. When we returned to work, we found the bottom was loose! Where it was touching the wet ground, and had wicked up water, it had popped all of the screws when it froze. Freezing water is a powerful thing!
 
droppoint1 said:
Why is just the bit area and sometimes the poll hardened, and not the entire axe head?

I have read that is to prevent the eye from cracking as easily. For example when driving the wedge into the kerf, or when chopping.

Seems like someone here might know definitively.
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A completely hardened axe, also known as a ticking fragmentation grenade. :D
 
droppoint1 said:
The question as to why it matters or not came up because I talked to the guy at B&C Tools today about the Allegash cruiser, and he told me that they were going throw the whole thing in the heat treat oven and harden the entire axe head, and of course temper it as well.

My understanding is that they thought it wasn't going to be used for serious work so it didn't really matter.

I suppose this might be better discussed in a B&C Allegash Cruiser thread if one exists.

My thought is why go through all of the trouble to make a historically accurate Maine axe pattern, and hammer forge it, but then skip the correct heat treating.
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one quench is easier than 2
 
droppoint1 said:
The question as to why it matters or not came up because I talked to the guy at B&C Tools today about the Allegash cruiser, and he told me that they were going throw the whole thing in the heat treat oven and harden the entire axe head, and of course temper it as well.

My understanding is that they thought it wasn't going to be used for serious work so it didn't really matter.

I suppose this might be better discussed in a B&C Allegash Cruiser thread if one exists.

My thought is why go through all of the trouble to make a historically accurate Maine axe pattern, and hammer forge it, but then skip the correct heat treating.
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Putting it in the oven wouldn't harden it. It does the opposite. They'd only be hardening the whole head if they quenched the whole head. My guess is their setup may not allow them to heat only the bit for the quenching phase? I'll ask them.
 
droppoint1 said:
He said specifically that the entire axe head would be hardened, and not just the bit and the poll.
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Sometimes the terms used can be confusing.(And yes,especially coming from a non-technical part of staff).

By "quenching" we mean imparting the Maximum hardness to a forging.The necessary sequel to this process is "tempering",which is subtracting some of this hardness,to whatever degree that is required.

Sometimes,(as FortyTwo says above),the facilities dictate that the entire forging is quenched,but in the subsequent step of tempering that subtraction of excessive hardness may be done Differentially.
As in the temper can be drawn to a different degree in the areas of edge,eye,poll,et c.

Quenching,in a mirror process,can be done differentially.
And a third variant is when the forging consists of two different alloys,one hardenable while the other lacking sufficient carbon to do so.

In all three listed processes the result can be identical-a Differentially Hardened forging....

(why is auto-correct underlining my "differentially"?...i'd be really embarrassed if i misspelled it.:)
 
droppoint1 said:
My understanding is that they thought it wasn't going to be used for serious work so it didn't really matter.

I suppose this might be better discussed in a B&C Allegash Cruiser thread if one exists.

My thought is why go through all of the trouble to make a historically accurate Maine axe pattern, and hammer forge it, but then skip the correct heat treating
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That's a helluva marketing plan, "it's just a toy axe so it doesn't matter." If they go forward with that thinking then I predict this company comes out stillborn.
 
I've hardened and tempered a number of axes and hawks, in my propane forge and a water bucket.

It's not that hard to do it right.

It's also not visible to the consumer, but it's a critical part of building a good quality tool.

Old axe companies built their whole reputation and a lot of thier marketing around excellent heat treat.

If most of us here know this, you'd think they do to, and would follow suit. Sad if not.
 
Hmmm, a toy? Is that new product actually forged? Because of simple wedge shape (5 or even less straight line cuts ) somebody might try to cut those wedges with industrial saw, drill 3 holes Marble's style and voila, there comes brand new toy.
 
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droppoint1 said:
My understanding is that they thought it wasn't going to be used for serious work so it didn't really matter.
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I hope this a bit of misunderstanding. Otherwise it will be a bit embarrassing for the makers to tell customers “Here is your hand forged traditional Maine axe, but don’t do any serious work with it”.

Anyone know what these will cost?
 
They won't be the only high end manufacturer that heat treats the whole head. I can't say how much of a potential problem that would be.
 
If you leave the whole head at an HRC under 50 you may pull that off. But I doubt they're going to launch some dead-soft cutting implements.

I'm inclined to go with Mr. Pogg on this one.
 
At that price I will probably never own one but I still hope it works out. I think if it’s a quality, fully functional tool they will at least have a shot at success. I guess we’ll have to wait for the first reviews.
 
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Maine20 said:
At that price I will probably never own one but I still hope it works out. I think if it’s a quality, fully functional tool they will at least have a shot at success. I guess we’ll have to wait for the first reviews.
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Yes, but there are already many high end choices, some hand made by skilled smiths and lots of experience, some for less money. They might be swimming upstream with the current plan.
 
jblyttle said:
Yes, but there are already many high end choices, some hand made by skilled smiths and lots of experience, some for less money. They might be swimming upstream with the current plan.
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Agreed. It’s gonna take some clever, well directed marketing....we’ll see...
 
Also, now that I think about it, you can still buy a nice authentic vintage Maine axe even at collector prices for much less than $250. And there are still more than enough to satisfy the high end market. Anyway, all that said I do wish them success. Quality up and price as low as they can get it and be profitable will really help them. I think that they would need to be somewhere between $150-200 with high quality.
 
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