Why No Access to Imperial Schrade Records for ALL??

L

Larry303

Joined
Jul 28, 2005
Messages
2,209
G'Day,
You are aware I avoid controversy,:rolleyes: however I have some questions which may not be quite politically correct. I will take no response as indeed a response.
You need to refer to the thread quoted by 'Upstream' in the Herman Williams Thread which makes pretty interesting reading on the then pending clearance of the Schrade "Wall Collection".
In reading recent comments am I correct in assuming the Imperial Schrade Records were given away to a Collector Mr. Langston and is he the same 'Lt' that used to post on this forum?
Given 'Lt's' comment on 3rd October 2005 @11.40am which read "I can assure any one who is interested I will be happy to offer whatever information or opinions I can-Lt",and am I right in assuming these comments were made prior to being given the Schrade History?
Could these records have been given to someone who was an acknowledged Schrade expert as custodian of the history on behalf of all Schrade Collectors, given by whomever confidant in the knowledge that this information would be provided to Schrade Collectors as freely as it had been given in the past?
I,and other Forum Members have raised many questions that remain unanswered that must surely have answers within the Schrade History Documents.My recent query re the 3OT history is an example.
Should not this information be freely available if that was the intention of the donor or will it be given or even witheld if you will for personal gain, financial or emotional?
Will Mr Voyles be given free access to these records for his upcoming book in which case I guess we will end up paying to obtain this information in due course.
In his posts I referred to above 'Lt' clearly states he has issues with SMKW not sticking to an implied agreement not to split up "the Wall Collection" if or when they purchased and is this really any different to being provided with The Imperial Schrade History Documents and then not allowing access by those interested? In those posts 'Lt' is on record with many very disparaging remarks concerning the 'Tennessee connection 'so was it this connection that provided these documents for the good of all.In which case I change my view a tad of SMKW and Mr Taylor.
I ask these questions on behalf of all current posting Forum Members who desperately seek knowledge on our beloved Schrade History.
How do we move forward if positions remain unmoved and what is to be gained for the better good of all if info is witheld from this Forum.
If I am out of place asking these questions I'm sure retribution will be swift and well deserved, however if these are simply questions not to be answered because they should remain hidden for fear of upsettling the status quo then I make no apology. 'Lt' stated on AAPK forum of a Schrade question that the person should have asked there and NOT here.Why??Will someone tell me..life is all too short for us all not to let bygones be just that.
Those that can least afford it get to pay again?

Hoo Roo from a Lad from the Colonies who simply loves Schrade. Larry 303.
 
Groan! It rears its ugly head again! Larry, I myself got here at BF too late to get the whole story, but as I understand it (and I can hear the INCOMING already!) Lt and Codger can't be on the same forum together, and do not generally post where the other hangs out. Please don't ask!!!!
If you have a question of LT, go to AAPK. Of Codger, do it here. I tried to pull the parties back together, and found it futile, and painful and got asked by several here never to mention it again.
To all who read this: The horse is DEAD! Don't beat it!!!!!
I love Schrades too, so let's talk about the knives. There's great stuff here, for the most part on the later era Schrades:
OTs and UHs and the like. And further back in time, AAPK is the premier source, Cut. Co.s and earlier Waldens. Of course there is overlap, but there you have it. My two cents!
 
...so withold access to the material to make yourself more important?
Says a lot about the character...I've already read his statements....Reasonable people would think one would rise above petty meanness.I would have fat chance of having a question answered on AAPK now I have mentioned the 'Emperor's' not wearing any bloody clothes.
All history owes us all is the truth and not someones version of the truth.
Alright the horse is dead....are we sure there's no pulse? Hoo Roo
 
There is no pulse. You might be suprised, so give AAPK a try with a question or two. For more current stuff Codger is your man, but for deep history it looks like LT might have the files.

Paul
 
Larry, it is hard to understand everything that has evolved here in the past without going back and reading it all, some of which has been deleted, and is probably better left that way.
It was not my intention to stir the pot with my link to the past. I was only trying to answer the question that was asked about Henry William's role in the late ISC, and without having first hand knowledge, and since nobody else offered any I thought that thread had some good information in it. Maybe I should have picked a different one.
Both Lt and Michael have greatly influenced my interest in collecting Schrades and it is a great loss to all interested that they could not work out their differences. However that is between them and that is that.
It is not fair of you to make judgments without knowing the whole story. Mr. Langston has always been very forthcoming in regards to sharing information about ISC and even advertises free appraisals on his cards. But I have to respect his decision to move on. If there is anything you really want to know, just click on LT's profile,his e-mail address is still there. You have to keep in mind that he was collecting these things long berfore anyone even considered them collectable and has probably forgotten more history than many of us will ever know.
Thanks Rick
 
I think a large part of the info Lt has is either from memory or from things he's collected over the decades. He has a HUGE collection and he is quite the authority, I don't think he or anyone else here got the piles of records, that probably went to the buyers or the bank, who then tossed most of it in the incinerator:mad: . You're probably talknig about tons of paperwork here. I honestly don't think anyone would hold back info intentionally. That 3OT is so rare there's probably nothing official left regarding it.

Eric
 
I think you are wrong, Larry303! LT is a generous guy, and loves the history and the knives, and gives what he can honestly and freely!! He's straightforward, if a bit curmudgeonly (I think he'll admit!) and what you see is what you get! And I have yet to find anyone who knows more about the history off the top of his head!!
 
ea42 said:
...I don't think he or anyone else here got the piles of records, that probably went to the buyers or the bank, who then tossed most of it in the incinerator...

Eric
Click to expand...

Eric, most of it escaped the incinerator. And the landfill. Mr. Taylor gifted cabinet after cabinet of records to Mr. Langston. Some employees also had some duplicate records at the close. Those were not a part of, and not mixed in with the Intellectual Property Mr. Taylor purchased, and some of those still exist in other private hands.

Michael
 
Thanks for clearing that up for me Michael, it's actually good to know the stuff wasn't lost forever, and it's actually in good hands. I just assumed (and you know what they say about that!) that it was all disposed of.
Eric
 
"Mr Taylor gifted cabinet after cabinet of records to Mr Langston"....the same 'generous guy' who will give out nothing on this forum,and was granted custodianship by Mr Taylor?....I would rather have taken my chances with Mr Taylor and I for one apologise to Mr Taylor for a lot of the negativity I threw his way.<I still dont like the lack of quality of his knives>.
I suspected it was a sensitive issue however why continue to tug your collective forelocks to someone who will provide 'zilch' to the Schrade Collectors on this forum, under the guise of a 'personality clash' with 1 alright maybe now 2 people.
Waynorth I hear what you say mate but what you see is certainly not what we're getting ...I say it again all History owes to those that follow is the TRUTH. The horse is dead but you can still smell its last crapp...
If I came from Tennessee I would quite rightly take umbridge to Lt's statements on record..."Tennessee Mafia"....".all fleas infesting the same hound." etc etc. If I were Tennessee Codger I would have buried the hatchet allright!
You must understand these are my thoughts only and I have not posted these comments at anyone else's behest...do I ever sound like a person that would?I was shafted by Lt from the first moment I posted on here as an unknown new chum, and I think it was you Waynorth that sprung to my defence. I'm not going back to check in fact I'm no longer interested and going back and checking anything.......Hoo Roo
Back to hiding the skeletons in the closet. Hoo Roo
 
I have found both men to be very generous in their departing of knowledge of Schrades to me. I came a little too late to know the whole story (and quite frankly, it really isn't any of my business) but I've found if you ask either of them a question, they will both most certainly give you the best answer they have (and this is usually much better than you can get anywhere else). It would be nice if both of their great minds would come together but I think I say that rather selfishly because it would be us that would benefit the most from that. But, it is what it is and you move on. Quite frankly, as a FNG, I've found everything I need to know right here and if it hasn't been on these boards, someone on the forum has pointed me in the right direction. History always gives the truth Larry. It's all in our interpretation of history that decides which way the story is told.
 
Larry,

Something stinks alright, but it ain't the horse crap. :rolleyes:

Yeah, we all wish that the hoards of info in "the vault" were more publicly available, but at least that info has been saved by someone, and not thrown in the landfill.

And since you exhumed the dead horse, I will say this. Whether you like Rich or not, the majority of the people that have frequented this forum over the years would be hard pressed to find a more generous or helpful person. Rich is an extremely opinionated man with strong convictions, (some might say stubborn) and his personality does not mesh with everyone. He would rather walk away from something than go against his own beliefs. I don't like that, but I understand and respect that.

I consider both Rich and Mike to be friends, although neither are on my Christmas card list. I have tried in vain to get both to adopt me, but alas...:grumpy: So it is frustrating when anyone drags this matter up again. Although this is a public forum, that was a private matter, and we have all tried to let it die a less painful death.

The selfish part of all of us wants all info to be disclosed. Hell, at least I got to find out who shot JR...

Perhaps this info will come out in it's own time. I always find that you get more flies with honey than vinegar. However, I suppose a dead horse would attract a lot of flies too... do what you feel you must do. Just keep in mind, there are "some things" that are better left as undisclosed history.

Glenn
 
Without referring to a specific situation, picture this if you will! 5 4-drawer filing cabinets, filled with purchase and production orders, memos and directives, yada yada. An EXPERIENCED file clerk looking for an obscure knife reference in all those files, perhaps only a few lines in a list. I happen to employ such a person; She and I came up with 3 to 7 workdays, a bit of a guess, depending on whether you search the whole works, or stop at the first reference; assuming also she didn't file everything herself.
What's it worth to find all references?? Let's use $10/hour (she makes more, but $10 is easier). 3 days=24hrs.=$240!
7 days=56hrs.=$560! That's if you don't find it on the first page, and you don't miss it the first time through. It could take longer or shorter depending on these factors. And there may be many more files!?!? Conclusion; real research is tedious and expensive, and sometimes, unrewarding!!:eek:
 
Having "access" to a mountain of disorganized data doesn't do much good anyway. Think of how many times the stuff had been moved, rumaged through, and scattered as the factory was being closed. Consider how much of the pile is useless (lunchroom cleaning schedules and plumbing reciepts perhaps).

No thanks, I'll wait for someone else to write a book.

-Bob
 
The math on the searching to find a file is a bit conservative. A lot of it is mis-filed. Some things are filed by customer, some by pattern, some by issue, some by year. Some customer names cannot be confirmed in production reports. Contracts are still privilidged information. So is employment and employee information. I often photoshop signatures out of sheets I show. This is a part of the agreement under which I was given exclusive rights to the material I have. With the privilidge of posessing and using the material I have comes a heavy responsibility. I take it seriously. I am sure Mr. Langston feels the same way about the files he posesses. And I believe he will eventually make those files available for research.

Michael
 
"...and I believe he will eventually make those files available for research"...
I guess that was all my questions were about.
Someone like lrv with his IT abilities could organise and record useful data I'm fairly certain.
Those records were obviously given for a reason and as yet that reason would not appear to have been fulfilled approaching 3 years later,however it would appear this particular "Schrade Collectors Forum" will be the last to know.
I respect all your opinions, I guess all our collective inputs will continue to be based largely on SUPPOSITIONS apart from the gems of info Codger has been able to inject in more recent times from some duplicate records.. 'Ya'll look after ya'self now Codger ya hear mate as our resident 'Guru' and I hope I wont be upsetting you now........Dobbin is no more he's a Kaput horse!! Hoo Roo
 
Larry303 said:
"...approaching 3 years later...
Click to expand...

Actually, I believe that if you will check, he has only had posession less than a year. It was posted when he returned from Tennessee with them somewhere around mid year last year. Mr. Langston is an author, at least one knife book to his credit. And he has been working for years to establish a knife museum somewhere in New York State.

Michael
 
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