Why No Hollow Grinds From Bladesmiths?

RWS

RWS

Joined
Jul 10, 2003
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I've been collecting custom knives for about three years and I've noticed something in the knife world that has made me curious.

I have yet to see a hollow ground blade from a forging bladesmith. I see that these very gifted knifemakers seem to all prefer the flat ground blades.

I have seen that a lot of stock removal makers do hollow grinds, while some of them even do both hollow and flat grinds.

Why aren't there any forged hollow ground blades being made by the forging bladesmiths or maybe there are and I just haven't seen them?

Both styles are nice, IMO. However, As I'm getting more and more interested in the forged stuff, is it crazy to ask a maker who forges to do a hollow ground blade?

HOLLOW GRIND:D
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FLAT GRIND:D
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I believe one reason the full "v" grinds are done like the one shown above is that is fully displays a damascus pattern without "refraction," like you'd get with a hollow grind.

Another reason may be the geometry of hollow-grinding a distal tapered forged knife. I'm working on one right now with two hollows and it seems a little harder to do than regular ol' stock removal. Just my inexperience showing on that one probably.
:D
 
I've hollow ground some daggers. On some daggers, hollow grinding just looks best, in my opinion.
There seems to be a tradition with forged blades and flat grinds, even though most of them really old bowies where really hollow ground, just on a really big wheel so much so that they just appear flat. Bladesmiths tend to stick to traditions but not always. Thats my guess anyway to your question. Glad you are beginning to like the forged blade. If you got time you ought to come out to the Reno show the end of January to the ABS show. You will find something in there that will please you if you like forged blades.
j
 
Originally posted by fisk
Glad you are beginning to like the forged blade. If you got time you ought to come out to the Reno show the end of January to the ABS show. You will find something in there that will please you if you like forged blades.
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I know that I would enjoy being there and I am hoping to make it there just to see guys like you and all the folks who make this fun.
 
The reason I don't do hollow grinds is that I can't forge them in. I do have a Burr King with 8, 10 and 12" wheels but in my eyes if it's forged it's got a flat grind.
 
Originally posted by BadBamaUmp
The reason I don't do hollow grinds is that I can't forge them in. I do have a Burr King with 8, 10 and 12" wheels but in my eyes if it's forged it's got a flat grind.
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Hey BBU,
So a hollow grind can't be done due to the way you forge or is it just too hard to hollow grind a forged balde?
 
Originally posted by fisk
I've hollow ground some daggers. On some daggers, hollow grinding just looks best, in my opinion.
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Hi Jerry,
So you could hollow grind a Bowie/hunter/fighter forged blade if someone wanted?
Does it add or change the level of difficulty of making the knife by hollow grinding a forged blade?
 
Weeelllll I can see how I could forge hollows in, large round faced anvil face would do it. Heck, I'm still learning to hammer flat knives :p I figure that things would get out of hand pretty fast trying to hammer in hollows, they fuller knives but it's in a limited area and not near the cutting edge. I'm only speaking for myself in this, but when it boils down to it, it's a large investment in time for something I could do easy on a grinder.

Mr. Fisk, missed you at Buckmaster's this year. I had the honor of forging with you last year for a couple of hours. I learned a lot from you and I'm doing my best to pass on my limited knowledge.
 
It is much easier to forge a flat grind to final shape and a lot of smiths like to forge to very close to final shape. Besides, if you forge in the hollows then it is a hollow forged knife, not a hollow ground knife. I know, picky picky.

Also, if you forge a fairly thick blade and then do a hollow grind, is this now a combination forged and stock removal knife? Enough of this foolishness, my head is starting to hurt.
 
Keith,
Just thinking (stand back!!!) but you could forge the hollows into thick steel then when you filed the profile it would "reveal" the hollows on the cutting edge, taddaaaaaaa :rolleyes:
 
I have had 2 Wild Bill Caldwell knives. Both were forged and hollow ground. I would say they were forged to profile with the hollows being done on a grinder. Maybe the bevels were partially forged in. Either way they work well :)
 
I would think that any knife made by Wild Bill Caldwell would work great. I have never seen one of his knives that I didn't like.
 
RW, sure they could do it. A good many old bowies where done that way as well as some swords and daggers. If you are not careful you will bring up that old flame thing on cutting advantages etc of the different grinds. heheh.
You can actually improve some damascus patterns by hollow grinding instead of flat grinding. By the way, nice knife on your avitar. Looks like a Dean.
Ump
Glad to see you passing it on. I missed going to the Buckmaster doings. I enjoyed meeting everyone there.
 
Originally posted by fisk
If you are not careful you will bring up that old flame thing on cutting advantages etc of the different grinds. heheh.
By the way, nice knife on your avitar. Looks like a Dean.
Ump
Glad to see you passing it on. I missed going to the Buckmaster doings. I enjoyed meeting everyone there.
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Jerry,
I would imagine there are a lot of debates about which grind is "better". I'm more after the style of a knife like this than functionality as I would not take and use a $2000+ knife. The ABS boys obviously prefer the flat grind as I have never seen one of theirs with a hollow ground blade.

Despite my fondness of the flat grind style, I know that I wouldn't mind having one forged Bowie with that hollow grind look. I've been kind of afraid to ask any of the MS guys to make one fearing I would insult them becuase all their knives seem to be flat ground.

I think it might be a neat change from the usual, AND GREAT, flat grind blade look we're all use to seeing on the forged knives.

Jerry, does it matter in the testing for a Mastersmith rating if the knives submitted had a hollow grind?

Yes, my avatar is a Dean. I sure like his stuff!
Hopefully, there will also be a Fisk in the future.;););)
 
You certainly don't HAVE to flat grind a forged blade. I have seen some guys forge and then grind and remove more metal at the grinder than a closely forged to shape and then hollow ground blade.

I hollow grind my daggers, I just like the look.

I had one at the ABS show last year, which was ALL FORGED blades. It was forge VERY close to shape, and then hollow ground on an 8" wheel.

So I guess some ABS boys do hollow grind now and then ;)
Nick
 
RW
I really like the Deans too. Gotta order me one next year.
On the Hollow grind. Sure go ahead and ask all they can do is say no. Most Mastersmiths I know would not mind being asked at all and some of them would do it.
As far as the judging for their MS's other than a dagger it would throw a lot of suspicion that it was not forged but stock removal so I would reccomend to not put one in there hollow ground.
I've hollow ground a few other than daggers just so I would know how.
 
Mr. Fisk,

This is somewhat unrelated, but this thread made me think of this question again. A while back I was messing around with what I guess is a modified version of a chisel grind. One side was vertical, as in an ordinary chisel grind, the other side was hollow ground without any secondary bevel. It was tougher than I expected (I had low expectations), and since it was a toy for myself, I didn't have to worry about the difficulties re-sharpening.

Anyhow, have you seen anyone actually using that kind of profile?
 
Gabe
No sir, I have not seen that particular grind. Would be interesting. My last grinding playing was with a chisel grind that had one side convexed. I have played with chisel grinds several times. Always a good thing to play cause if you dont you may miss something good. I would think the grind you had would give results with some type of cuts and not as well in other types. That is the thing to find an overall cutting grind. My opinion is the grind is the single most important thing in cut.
 
Nick and Jerry,
I really wish I could see what a forged hollow ground Damascus Bowie blade looks like. Maybe it looks like any other hollow ground blade?

I don't mean to put anyone on the spot regarding hollow grinding but, it appears that neither one of you gentlemen would shy away from an order for a hollow ground bladed Bowie, or would you rather not have that as part of your product line?
 
Originally posted by Bill Siegle
I have had 2 Wild Bill Caldwell knives. Both were forged and hollow ground.
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Boy, I sure wish there was a picture we could see of those 2!
 
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