Why No Lockbar Stabilizer for Sebenza?

T

TKD

Joined
Dec 18, 2002
Messages
115
I noticed the Strider SNG has this disc device that "stabilizes" the lockbar?
Is this even necessary?
 
I don't think it's necessary. The clip also functions a bit like one. (Like on my Strider PT). Even when I carry my regular Sebbie 'clipless', I never bend the lockbar outwards beyond the handle. It could be different on the classic Sebbie however because you can get more 'behind' the lockbar.
 
I've been carrying and using framers for years and have never experienced the lockbar problems explained below. This isn't to say that it can't or will never happen.

I think that the stabilizer is pretty cool.

Is it necessary ? IMO. . . .no

Does it make a knife "tougher and more hardcore". . . .you can be your own judge. :D





Hinderer Lock Bar Stabilizer Explained - per Rick Hinderer:

"I felt that I should write a post explaining the new feature on Striders framelocks, the Lockbar Stabilizer.......Of course as all of you have found out it is obviously a overtravel stop..in other words it prevents the accidental overtravel of the lockbar during closing of the knife...some of you have stated that sometimes repeated closings sometimes weakens the lockbar and thus the lockup is not as tight,well, I can visualize that,but actually the problem I wanted to correct concerning overtravel is the complete overspringing of the lockbar thereby rendering the knife useless...cant be done some say?...a little story of how I came up with it...I am firefighter as alot of you know...while working a accident scene I was using one of my Firetac's to cut the upholstery material around a seat post prior to using the jaws to cut the post...being that it was a good wreck, and adrenalin was running high,and the fact that we wear heavy glove when working a MVA,I pushed the lockbar way to hard thereby springing it,and of course the blade could no longer lock,not a good thing to happen, at the wrong time! I knew then I needed to do something about it...The other issue I wanted to address was the lockbar springing towards the back of the knife when gripping it...this is what is not so obvious in a improvement...the reason is that sometimes the movement in the lockbar is not really noticeable when using the knife under normal conditions...but when you use the knife really hard, and really grip it you WILL move the lockbar..this is because to make a framelock or linerlock for that matter you have to cut the long slot in the frame or liner to make the lockbar,it does not matter what size slot you cut you will still have material missing there...simple physics, suggests that you have a lever and it will move toward the back of the knife...guaranteed...now, what does this mean...1, whenever you have movement in a mechanism it is a chance for that mechanism to fail..2,extra movement in the lock to blade joint will wear the lockface quicker...3,when the blade is locked up on a framelock with the lockbar stabilizer there will be absolutely no movement in the lock....

So given all this is the improvement overkill? Extreme?.....when do we stop designing extreme use knives,as in ... is good enough the way it is?

Myself and Strider Knives design hard use knives gleaned from actual field experience,I didn't hear of this problem from anyone else in the field,I was in the field and experienced it!...Given the addition of the Lockbar Stabilizer Strider framelocks are even tougher and more hardcore than before..worth it? YOU BET!!"
Click to expand...
 
When I first had a Sebenza, I tried pulling the lock, not squeezing it, as it should be done. If you disengage the lock correctly, you won't have any issues. However, if you're a moron (like I was for about a week) you might.
Seriously, when I first got a Seb, I was thinking like a liner-lock owner, you pull it to disengage. My problem was that I didn't want to risk bending the lockbar out of shape by pulling on it. At the time, it seemed as though the bar should only move left and right, never back. So if you pull on it the way I tried to, too hard, then yes, you might have a problem. But I got over this quickly.
 
Because they don't need one. I have never owned a Sebenza, large or small, Umfaan or Mnandi, that was prone to overflexing of the lockbar or had one that wasn't solid in the locked position. That is not true of every framelock I have had, but if the knife is made properly a stablizer or lockbar stop is not necessary.

But then, some people like to wear braces and a belt :shrug:
 
I haven't owned a CRK, Mayo, Benchmade, or any other framelock that has needed a stabilizer. They are cool looking though.
 
DaveH said:
IMO it could be useful if you are an extreme user.

I'm not.
Click to expand...
I agree. It's probably very useful if you make what I call guillotine cuts. That's where you lay the the material to be cut across the handle and close the knife on it. I need to do this occasionally on air lines that won't stay put in fittings. I only need or can cut it back a wee bit so I can't fold it over like rope and draw cut it . Usually it's live, I'm in an awkward position and there's nothing to lay it on. I don't carry framelocks at work for this reason. I imagine a stabilizer would let me do this without the lock bar bending outward
 
How hard is that to actually pull off. Has anyone "oversprung" a sebbie to the point where it would not return to zero. How far would it have to travel out?
 
I have out traveled one too far, but the was pure user fault, not CRKs. I purchased it used, and it was to far over, and pushed to far. CRK took care of it, but I should have recieved a big L to my forehead for doing it.
 
Maybe the flaw was with the Firetac knife he was using. The sebenza, in my opinion of course is superior in design and thus does not need the "silly" stabilizer bar. Just my opinion, don't want to start a flame war. I've never had the lock bar over extending. It takes a lot of pressure and strength to over extend the lock bar on the sebenza. I guess the stabilizer is for those who are really HARDCORE and really use their knives. :rolleyes:
 
My guess is that it is useful when a knife user is all amped up during the course of using the knife. Mr. Hinderer is a firefighter and I can imagine all sorts of calamity where adrenaline makes you possibly unlock the knife with great force. So it's a good idea when a knife is used in special conditions that most of us are not exposed to. I don't think Sebenza knives are marketed as the super tough knife, although they fit the bill pretty well. For the user that uses it during the course of work in normal circumstances, it should operate well and not fail in that regard.
 
Well I've used my Mnandi to cut loose patients that somehow end up wrapping oxygen tubing around their necks and decide that maybe they'd be more comfortable sitting on the floor until they figure out that not being able to breathe can be extremely inconvienient. Point being that I've openned framelocks in bloody life and death situations and to me, having a stabilzer isn't an issue.
 
Gigone, thanks for posting a reprint of my explaination of the what the Lockbar Stabilizer does,but even tho I've explained it a thousand times people just dont or they dont want to "get" it...sure its a overtravel stop,but its more than that ..it also prevents movement of the lockbar towards the spine of the knife.this occures in EVERY framelock and linerlock made..its because of the cut we make in the liner/or frame to make the lockbar and the lockbar WILL flex towards that open slot..that causes movement on the lock face which adds to wear and the fact that if you have movement in a mechanism its a chance for that mechanism to fail.the lockbar stabilizer eleminates that.

TKD, have you ever used a Firetac? you dont want to start a Flame war but yet you bash my work? Your a fan of CRK and I respect that,but when you start a thread with the sole reason of bashing my work I will respond..Hardcore?..I guess if being a Firefighter/EMT hardcore than ok I accept that...

DBH...thats great for the warrenty issue,but what about when you need the knife most and your sitting on a broke knife,like for instance when you drive home from the office and you get in a wreck and your sitting there upside down in a car trying to cut your way out and the knife is rendered useless?warranty wont do you any good at that particular time...

stjames, I suppose since you have made and designed so many knives you know what is proper in the design of a framelock?

Scott dog...the incident you are describing could have been accomplished with a Case Peanut knife...what I'm talking about is cutting car seat material with turnout glooves on...

Roninpimp...you question my service? Rick Hinderer firefighter/EMT Wooster Twp. Fire Dept. (9yrs service) Diver with the Wayne county underwater search and rescue team (10yrs service) look it up! what do you do,besides being a real life ronin :rolleyes:

Boink said it well, and I agree Sebies are fantastic knives that will not fail under normal circumstances,I only addressed concerns that will happen when you use your tool hard..

Why do we even improve things??why not just leave things the way they are..horses and buggies did just fine..why anti-lock brakes when regular brakes stop our cars just fine?if you like the way things are, fine but the need to pass judgement on something without any experience of it is well,immature...

as I stated before,I have always been a fan of CRK..and I have the upmost respect for Chris and what he has done in the knife industry..he IMPROVED on the basic linerlock in comeing up with the first framelock folding knife!

Rick Hinderer
 
Rhind64 said:
...it also prevents movement of the lockbar towards the spine of the knife.this occures in EVERY framelock and linerlock made..its because of the cut we make in the liner/or frame to make the lockbar and the lockbar WILL flex towards that open slot..that causes movement on the lock face which adds to wear and the fact that if you have movement in a mechanism its a chance for that mechanism to fail.the lockbar stabilizer eleminates that.
Click to expand...

While looking at my own Strider PT, and pictures of a the SLB on a picture the SnG I'm trying hard to understand the quoted part above. The only movement I see is the lockbar going inwards when locking the blade, and outwards when I unlock it. There I can see use for the SLB, or the clip on my PT, to protect it from bending outwards.
But, I don't get the 'movement of the lockbar towards the spine of the knife'.
Could someone please post a picture and indicate that movement?
Thanks!
Ted
 
Hi Ted,
I am including a link to my site which is a drawing of what I am referring too http://www.rhknives.com/Rhknives/cadfilex.html ...but basicly if you do this it may give a better understanding...hold you knife in the palm of your hand with the edge towards you take your thumb and place it on the lockbar in the finger cuttout towards the tang of the blade(where you normally put your finger to unlock the knife) now push downwards which will be towards the spine of the knife,you will feel a slight movement here..it wont be alot! but it will be there and it doesnt take much...how this translates when you are using the knife is when you grip the knife hard(as when you are using it to cut through something tough) the squeezing of your hand will compress the lockbar towards the back of the knife,we used to call this the (squishyness) you would feel...I hope this helps better explain this feature..Thanks

Rick Hinderer
 
Thanks Rick, I get it now. Makes sense indeed. Must be tough then to design a frame lock with that feature. Even less room for tolerances! :eek:
 
Ted, Thanks! well, actually the tollerances are the same...the design of the stablizer button and the pocket it sits in are what takes up the varience in tolerance. I have put these on other framlocks not designed for it and it worked..plus the Strider folders were not originally designed for these..thanks so much for your willingness to look into this!

Rick
 
Roninpimp...you question my service? Rick Hinderer firefighter/EMT Wooster Twp. Fire Dept. (9yrs service) Diver with the Wayne county underwater search and rescue team (10yrs service) look it up! what do you do,besides being a real life ronin
Click to expand...
-Lighten up, I wasn't questioning your "service". It was an attempted dig at the buyers of hard use knives, who then open mail with them. :rolleyes:
 
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