Why no stoves or water filters?

[midnight flyer]

OK - this doesn't apply to the survival guys that are testing their personal grit by leaving home with nothing to see how they fare.

This is for the day hike, camping, hunting and distance hiking crowd.

I am surprised by the folks that don't use two pieces of gear I think of as basic kit.

For a little over 20 years I have used a water filter (First Need) and an MSR Whisperlite stove. If I will be out for more longer than I can carry water in my initial load out, the filter always goes. The stove goes though, if I think I might want a cup of coffee, so unless it is the middle of the summer it goes as well, sometimes in just a day out.

I never see anyone here talk about either of them (or their cousins), and I find that intriguing. I live in South Texas, and we are in constant drought conditions, so there are no open fires allowed in any state or federal parks unless you are in a prescribed areas. They will fine you and eject you if you try it. When I was trekking about in California, there were no open fires in the national parks I went to, including Yosemite, same parameters as above. You can see what some asshole did out in CA with the wildfires he started, granted it was on purpose, but just how much damage wildfires can do. With that in mind, plus having seen idiot camp monkeys pull apart trees to get wood to burn, I have no problem with the no burn policy.

But wherever I have been, they always allow a small stove without a whisper of complaint. But out of the many hundred posts I have read here about packing, hiking, camping, etc., I haven't seen anyone mention a stove unless it is a wood burner. My MSR has been a trojan, and in 20 years I have only rebuilt it once, and that was in the field in a few minutes. Really easy. 1/2 pint of fuel will last 3 -4 days out, so not much weight there at all. And you can instantly start your fire with no fuss. I would rather spend my time on my shelter, not my cook fire. And having the stove up in 5 minutes means no looking for fuel, tinder, no batoning, sawing, or any other kind of prep. Light the match and "presto".

As for the water filter, I will make room for that. I didn't know about them until a guy that trained somewhere "down south" in the jungle with the special forces told me about them. He said he always used a filter, regardless of what the provided in the Army when he was out in the jungle. All his buddies did, too. They didn't even trust the water the Army provided. And when out in the jungle, they wrapped a piece of cloth over the end of the pickup tube, ran the water through the filter and drank. Never a problem, according to him.

I can attest to that. I have filtered some pretty rank stuff, as under drought conditions the water we find isn't good most of the time. But I have never been sick after filtering, no matter what. If I could find the guy that told me about the filters, I would love to shake his hand. No looking for fuel to burn to boil water, no fire to make, no waiting for a boil, and you can pump liters in minutes, not boil tiny cupfuls every few minutes to pour (after it cools( into your bottles.

And with careful cleaning and common sense, I have never had a failure on the trail, although I still take my iodine tabs to be sure.

The first time I found I didn't have boil to enough water to get a couple of liters for my pack I remember I thought it was too good to be true! It is! I want to be hiking, not doing kitchen chores. We used to spend 45 minutes getting three liters of water boiled, cooled and into the bottles. Now that task is about 5 minutes. So I am not getting this boiling business...

Any thoughts? Am I just too old fashioned? Remember - not talking to the minimalist Les Stroud guys.

And I am not trying to piss off the guys that like to play with fire. I do too, we're just not allowed to do it freely here!

Robert

 

[Pritch]

MF -

I think you'll find a lot of guys here take filters and stoves on planned overnight outings. I always bring my filter and stove when backpacking.
What has been discussed most recently is what we tend to bring along on day hikes or outings where an overnight is possible but not intentional. Also, as you note, there have beenseveral threads lately related to people intentionally going out with minimum gear in order to test themselves.

Like any forum, topics tend to ebb and flow. There have been numerous discussions regarding on which filter is best, the merits of UV and chemical purifiers, and all manner of threads on homemade alcohol and wood stoves. Various other backpacking stoves have been discussed as well. It is likely that you have just missed these threads. I see that you are a basic member, so you have the capacity to search old threads.

-- FLIX

 

[Robert H]

I just took my Jet Boil snow shoeing, and had a small Pocket Rocket available as well. I also carry a chemical and MSR filter, the Hyperflow, since it fits my Nalgene bottles.

I am far from a minimalist. I've learned how to do so, but find no satisfaction in it. I'd much rather use the technology I have to comfortably survive with a comfortable load.

 

[apsilon]

For a day trip? No need. I always take a fuill 100oz Camelbak. I will occasionally take a small cooking kit in winter if I want to have soup for lunch or hot coffee or tea.

The small kit I take consists of:
- MSR Titan kettle - Titanium obviously, folding handle, holds about 850ml of water if filled to the lip
- Vargo Triad Ti alcohol stove - very small and light.
- Ti windscreen - Rolled up and secured with some O rings under the stove is a windscreen made of titanium foil. Using a windscreen for the stove improves efficiency as more heated is directed up to what you're trying to heat. Inside the rolled up windscreen is a Sparklite flint sparker to light the stove and a couple of tinder-quik tabs in case I want to get an actual fire going.
- Snowpeak collabsible chopsticks - recent edition so not used much yet but chopsticks (once you master them) are very versatile.
- Snowpeak stubby Ti spork - A short spork. The length is both a pro and con. It fits in the kit which is good but the short length means your fingers are very close to the pot for stirring.
- TAD v2 Ti spork - the most recent edition. Expensive, in fact I'd say overpriced a bit given some parts are stainless. Obviously a smaller spork bit than the Snowpeak but it works. Can't see the can/bottle opener being useful for walks. Who carries the extra weight of cans or bottles? The thing I do really like about it however is that it's small and so fits in the kit but when open is long enough to keep my fingers from being burnt while stirring. It's pretty much replacing the stubby Snowpeak.
-Dish cloth and scourer. Also stops things rattling around.

For longer trips then a proper stove and filter for sure. I use a MSR Dragonfly for the stove and a MSR WaterWorks EX filter.

 

[stingray4540]

Dayhikes, I always have a full camelback, and my PSK has purifying tablets. And, I always have my homemade stove and cup in the bottom of my pack as well.

 

[Mikel_24]

If I plan on melting snow or cooking for a large group, I carry a Primus Omnifuel. If I (or we) are going lightweight and no melting is involved, I carry an MSR Pocket Rocket (cheap and light). You can find ligther cartdrige stoves but they prices go high pretty quick... while the weight doesn't go down at the same rate (thinking about some Titanium stoves).

For a dayhike I usually don't carry a stove at all, neither a filter (just some Micropur Forte tablets that I barely have the chance to use).

Mikel

 

[kgd]

As Flix has said, there have been a number of threads on this it is just that they haven't been posted lately. Personally I use both my MSR water filter and the whisperlite stove often. I love the stove. I wonder if there is not a better filter out there sometimes for speed of processing, but it has always worked for me.

 

[hollowdweller]

This is a knife site so we talk a lot about them:thumbup:

However here's a thread I posted a while back about White Box Stoves and IUKE12 sent me one of his which I tried and liked.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=58403

There is LOTS of wood where I hike and a lot of times I just cook over a fire (since I'm a blade freak and that just gives me more excuse to use my hatchet or knife ) but I like the little alcohol stoves for quick starts in the morning when I want to get on the trail.:thumbup:

 

[J. Doyle]

I always carry a small water filter though I don't always use it. White water coming out of the wilderness through solid granite that is mostly snowmelt... usually no need to filter. But I do have one. As for stoves, I never take one. I always build a small fire and use flat stones to make a small stand around the fire to hold my cup, cookpot, or frying pan. I just don't like carrying extra stuff like a stove and fuel. Some guys do and that's fine. Even when camping I don't use a stove. This one I made on top of a stump and fueled it with coals from our main fire.

 

[mdauben]

I am surprised by the folks that don't use two pieces of gear I think of as basic kit.

Well there's "basic kit" and there's "basic kit" I would say.

As far as water treatment, I have always used the old standby Potable-Aqua. Smaller, lighter and simpler to use, I just never saw any reason to switch to one of the water filtration devices.

As far as a stove goes, I just don't feel the need in a survival kit or daypack. I'm not particularly addicted to coffee, and as far as food, in those situations I generally stick with ready-too-eat stuff like trail mix, power bars, fruit, etc. Even if I'm going overnight, if I'm going ultralight I may often forgo a stove and fuel to save weight. On a longer trip (or if its going to be cold out) I will probably bring one, but that is special circumstances.

I certainly would not argue against carrying either if you wish, I just don't feel the need in my own day-to-day rambling.

I live in South Texas, and we are in constant drought conditions, so there are no open fires allowed in any state or federal parks unless you are in a prescribed areas. They will fine you and eject you if you try it. When I was trekking about in California, there were no open fires in the national parks I went to, including Yosemite, same parameters as above.

That's pretty common and really I don't make a habit of building a campfire unless I'm in a regular campground with access to purchased wood. In a real survival situation of course I feel free to ignore open fire restrictions. They can feel free to hunt me down and fine me.

I haven't seen anyone mention a stove unless it is a wood burner.

I have always been partial to various butane and mixed gas canister stoves (I used to have one of those little butane "hockey-puck" stoves that I used for year and years until it became impossible to find the gas cartriges for it)

I do have one of those Coleman Feather-weight dual fuel stoves now.

 

[Wotan]

I don`t use water filters/purifiers. All water in the wild of northern Norway is fit for drinking without purifying.
I only carry stoves when up in the mountains where there are no wood.
The stoves I use is; a Optimus Nova when out on a daytrip or short overnighter.
In wintertime I mostly use an Optimus Hiker. This is used for cooking and also for warming up the tent (yeah, I know, very dangerous).

Tor

 

[Foilist]

For stoves I have a Coleman 533 Sportster, or whatever they call it. It is bomb-proof, can actually simmer, burns auto gas if needed (a plus for motorcycle camping), and parts are available everywhere (if it stops being bomb-proof).

I also have a very small Coleman butane cartridge stove, which is easy to use and compact, but finicky about temperature.

Finally, I have a homemade "Supercat" alcohol stove that is fun and surpringly useful.

For water I have a Pur Hiker that I have not needed to use much, and I carry around some Aqua Mira drops, just in case.

 

[tknife]

When backpacking I carry a Blu Gaz stove that is about 25 years old. It's not hi tech by any means but I've never had a single problem with it. I also carry a Pur Hiker model filter that I've had for over 10 years. In the Sierras, the water has to be filtered or boiled, and there are no open fires allowed above 10,000 ft. so they are both indespensable for me.

 

[m48shooter]

i always have my water fiter in my pack.. it lives in the front pocket with my first aid and fire kit... i also have iodine tablets on my canteen and more in the pack..... i gen cook on a fire but do run a stove 4 cityfied camping if fires are not allowed...

 

[baldtaco-II]

I've flagged up my fondness for burners and filters here several times. In fact, in another of those Luddites versus the universe threads I selected the water filter as my must have techno item while others were off selecting other things. The development of the water filter is such a benchmark point for me I now consider it central when I'm considering a kit list for a task.

Unlike getting water the old fashioned way; filtering through a tea bag, a sock, a moss and sand filled sack, and Millbanks with the vile flavour, I like fires. Fires are great. Although I do perhaps share some concern when I see inefficient fires, or headbangers vandalizing the woodland to support them. Outside of an emergency situation and I consider a fire a luxury item. Right time, right spot and a fire rounds out my experience nicely. Out of a typical 3-5 day out I will have a working plan of at what points I will be punctuating the trip with a fire if I can. What I won't do is have a dependency on it for heat and light. I carry other kit so as to be liberated from that. And liberating it is.

I use a bunch of different burners. At the shallow end I have one of those Pocket Rocket picnic jobs. Run on non-standard bottles from the hardware store I can pretty much get that inside half a 2*D Mag Lite [just for visualization purposes]. The disadvantage is that I usually need to poke a hole in the ground to pop the canister in, thereby allowing it to stand. And the burn time is very limited. In the convenience, size and weight comparison against an Esbit or one of those grumble along Trangias it wins hands down. Knowing that Esbits and Trangias try my patience it is plain why I'm not to keen to wait for my buddy to warm his sticks up just so he can have coffee either.

At the opposite end I do like my Coleman Unleaded. Loads that I like about liquid fuel plus the fails seem only ever limited to the vaporizer tube. And that can be controlled for.

Most of the time I use one of these. That is at the heart of my field kitchen. Whilst the two I mentioned above have their niches in the extremes it is this that does the donkey work for me. It affords my control, immediacy, and flexibility in a way that lighting fires cant. Fires are great for the other aspects they bring, but on a planned trip effort for effort I can tap more power from this burner than I can burning sticks. In some respects I see fires as I do candles – great for the psychological comfort, but we all know the truth about the efficiency of a Cree emitter vs a natural flame when the power goes out.

In fact, I have become so dug in on this that I have awarded real fire an equipment position based around its usefulness on the prepared trip. I simply build a small one inside my burners windshield / exchanger.

[old pics of a test one a knocked up a while back] -

And for reference I use these filters. I've been using those pretty much since inception. I've tried a few others but I like these most. I'm certain they can be bettered but they are a good package for me. I like the performance vs size / weight balance.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

I'm, kind of surprised at the question. Every kit list that's for more than a dayhike that I remember had a filter and usually a stove.

I don't carry a stove. Where I hike/camp there's plenty to burn, so I use a fire when I want. But then, most of what I carry for food can be cooked, but doesn't have to be.

If I'm out for more than a weekender, I carry an MSR Miniworks filter. Otherwise it's a coffee filter or Steripen prefilter (for when I carry Nalgenes) and Katadyn MicroPur tablets.

 

[Bigdumplings]

svea 123

minibulldesigns stove

aqua mira

 

[CSG]

In three of my packs I carry a little alcohol stove and fuel as well as water tabs. I have a Sweetwater pump filter and a couple MSR stoves as well as an Esbit. I carry none of these now as the only hiking I do anymore is day hiking. I don't practice what a lot of guys around here do regarding fires and shelter but I carry the stuff I carry mostly because I hike alone most of the time in remote areas and if I get stuck, I want to be able to provide the basics for an unplanned night or two or three. While I would want to likely build a fire and rig my poncho for shelter, the alcohol stove makes the first task easier if I were injured or there was not an ideal stash of firewood available. The water tabs would treat all but the worst water I carry a bandanna in each kit that would help with filtering if that were necessary.

I take your point though that unless one is going out to practice certain skills, spending time treating water by boiling and making and feeding a fire is not how I want to spend my time in the outdoors. I have the skills after 40 years of outdoors activities to do these things in most situations I might find myself in but I no longer see them as all that fun. I carry redundant fire kits and containers (canteen, titanium pot, etc.) but other than the water bottle/s I'm carrying filled already I haven't had the need to boil or treat water in years. Same with a necessary fire. I'll make a small fire from time to time with my boys to teach them and show them how easily it can be done if you have the tools and knowledge but that's about it.

 

[Terrill]

A Jetboil and a Steripen both live in my BOB and go out with me everytime I venture to the woods. I love them both and see no need to leave them behind.

 

[midnight flyer]

Wow... go to bed, get my guys out and check the forum. Lots of responses.

I saw some familiar looking gear pics, but working in snow, which we never have!

Thanks for the comments. I agree with the notion that it isn't important to take a stove on a day hike. Although I must say that it has found its way into the truck to make that coffee with the last of the water before hitting the road more than once. You can bet it's a popular little piece of gear around "coffeethirty" after a day of bird hunting and cleaning.

Good call on the "ebb and flow" of the topics. I participate on 3 other groups (the general contractors/woodworkers forum for about 10 years) and have found that to be true of just about any aspect of the forum's interest.

Amazing to me how polite the folks are in this neck of the woods on this forum. :thumbup:

Robert