Why no welded steel for a test blade?

JTknives

JTknives

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Jun 11, 2006
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So I have been setting goals in respect to moving my way up the ABS (American Bladesmith society) ladder. And figured I would start forging out test blades and playing with them so when the time comes to actually test I will be ready. I was reading through the rules for the test blade and I came across this
"No Damascus steel (pattern-welded) or other forge-welded material (welded cable, etc.) will be allowed for this test."

This left me scratching my head. I could understand no damascus/San-Mia but no forge welding is allowed at all? I was hoping to use 15n20 but that would require stacking up my thin sheets and "welding" them together. Not for pattern or any other reasion besides getting the stock thickness needed for forging.

I am just curious why the no welding. I'm not trying to get away with anything or "cheat" at all. I just really like 15n20 and think it would preforum great at thoes kinds of tests. So if anyone knows a reasion or can shed some light on this I would be very interested in hearing it.

Ps. it says no "forge weld" what about a "heat treat oven" weld lol
 
They had ppl failing because of questionable welds so they decided to not allow it any more.

Hoss
 
My understanding of it is to demonstrate finishing skills on a mono steel blade.
What you're suggesting is somewhat of a gray area, and I'm not really sure myself how it would fit in. I believe that rule is directed towards visible patterns, and wootz (which isn't welded) is excluded based on that.
Perhaps ask the question over on the ABS forum? It's pretty quite, but probably the best place to ask testing specific questions.
I'm about a year off the performance test myself, so I'm starting to think about various aspects of it some
 
Unless they have changed their rules, the Journeyman test knife must be of a mono steel. I used 5168. Welded steel like Damascus is required for the Master Smith test knife.
 
I want to use mono steel, but there is no stock thickenough in 15n20 so I was going to weld some together and make "mono" steel. I asked on the ABS forum and basically got "don't read into it, it says what it says"
 
JT, 5168 or 5160 is easy to work with. I edge quenched it in 130 degree Brownells tough quench and drew it back if I remember right at 400 degrees for two hours each time. The blade easily passed the Journeyman's test requirements.
 
Yeah I got a bunch of 5160 I just don't like the steel much any more. Would be funny to show up with a forged cpm3v blade. But as of yet my adventures in forging cpm 3v have been rather exciting and time consuming with nothing much to show for my efforts. Was just trying to be different, seams like most everyone goes with 5160. Can't blame them it's easy to work with and can pass the test if handled properly. But there is so many other great steels out there.
 
Outside of being different for the sake of being different, what does it matter? It's one knife, and it's going to get bent in a vise, and there's no upside to not doing the tried and true.
 
JT I've sat through several lectures on ABS judging standards. If there is one take away I got from them, it would be to not stray from or misinterpret the rules as they are laid out today. What I mean by that is if they say mono steel then that is it, don't get fancy or think your interpretation of the rules will do.

5160, 1075, 84, 95, etc are all great and affordable steels for the test blade. I did my first out of 1075 under the tutelage of Timothy Poteir. Worked like a champ.

My understanding on the welded steel is that they want a clear delineation between JS and MS. Damascus and the dagger are how they accomplish this. If you could use welded steel for the JS I think it would start to blur the line between the two.

-Clint
 
JT, You do know that while the blade length, overall length and height of the blade is regulated, there is no rule regarding the thickness. There is also no rule as to how log it takes you to whack those boards in two. If you watch the video that ran on the CBS Morning Show, Bob Kramer did the performance test with a 52100 chef knife. Of course, it bent to 90 degrees and sprung back straight because it was less than 1/8 thick. ;) Also, Bill Moran used to make his lightweight Colorado Camp Knife model from thin stock, 1/8 IIRC. Might you have any .130 15N20 stock lying around?
 
I don't have any that thick but I could aquire some but 52100 I have a lot of. Good tip on the thickness, did not even think about that. I generally like a med thickness blade but I guess I could work around the available thickness. Be there all day chopping a 2x4 with a fillet knife but man will it bend nice lol
 
8670 worked very well for my JS test & 5160/15N20 for the MS. They were on the thin side and flexed
back almost straight.

If ya want to play the ABS game ya have to follow the rules. I was all set to use damascus fittings on my
JS knives and they said No.

Of all the test knives I've done here the ones that failed the 90 deg flex/bend were also the thickest. One
guy broke his ankle when his blade broke. I don't have insurance for that kind of stuff, so no more
testing in my shop.
 
Don Hanson III said:
8670 worked very well for my JS test & 5160/15N20 for the MS. They were on the thin side and flexed
back almost straight.

If ya want to play the ABS game ya have to follow the rules. I was all set to use damascus fittings on my
JS knives and they said No.

Of all the test knives I've done here the ones that failed the 90 deg flex/bend were also the thickest. One
guy broke his ankle when his blade broke. I don't have insurance for that kind of stuff, so no more
testing in my shop.
Click to expand...

Damn Don, I was going to ask you to do my test in a couple years when I do this.
 
That was the problem I had. I was a member years ago and I let it lapse and spaced it out. So When I signed again up it started me over. I don't know how that works in the long run. Do you have to be a member for 2 years with no gaps or is it a total of 2 years? I know it revolves around blade.
 
As Don said, the ABS is really something you need to play along with. I'm a stock removal guy, and really do minimal forging. About the extent of forging I'm really interested in (apart from demonstrations at the museum) is making Damascus.
I'm also not really a fan of either satin or hand rubbed finishes, and normally put a mirror on everything.

That said when I do the JS test I'll be forging blades from a stick of O1 drill rod, and giving them hand rubbed finishes.
I'm planning on the typical 5160 for the performance test blade, but keeping it thin.
I wouldn't really feel guilty putting a forged blade on the surface grinder, and thinning it until most of the bevels are gone
 
Newbie question, once one gets the JS or MS stamp, can it only be used on a forged blade?, or for example, could a JS put the stamp on a CPM3V blade that was stock removal after passing the JS test?
 
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