Why not much use/talk of Sandvik 19C27?

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PhoulPlae

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Sep 26, 2001
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I have been wondering about this steel for quite a while now, but a search only came up with several threads, all with brief but positive notes on this steel.

Sandvik 12C27 has already established itself as a good, cheap steel that is incredibly pure, takes an awesome edge, resists rust like 440A, yet holds an edge like 440B or better. It has a good reputation and was supposedly designed specifically for cutlery/razor blades. The composition is not one that would impress at first glance, seemingly similar to 425M, as stated in Joe Talmadge's famous Steel FAQ, but this steel really performs (Frosts knives, etc.).

So why not much talk or experimenting with Sandvik 19C27? If it is anything like its brother 12C27, except designed to be competitive with ATS-34 and the like, I would expect it to take a killer edge, and have at least equivalent corrosion resistance or better and hold a good edge at least as well as ATS-34, or 154CM. Some have compared this to VG-10, but it seems more pure than VG-10.

If the price is not high, and 12C27 certainly isn't, this could be an awesome high end steel that doesn't cost a fortune. I would like to see some more people who have or have access to a knife made of 19C27 test and compare this steel to some of the other high end steels and see how it stacks up.

What do you think about Sandvik 19C27?
 
Probably not talked about because it is not even a popular knife steel in the countries where 12C27 is very popular. I have no idea why; it looks like a good knife steel.

I would be interested in knowing where you get your information on 12C27. I have never read that it held an edge possibly better than 440B. Everything I have ever read states that it is on par with 440A and no better.
 
actually.. it is used quit a bit in knives in Europe, more specifically, in france :D

Perceval for example uses in a lot of their lines, but it's most famous in their P60 ( and automatic of 60 gramms).

I'd like to get my greedy paws on the stuff too, and it is available in barstock, and it is cheap, but in the knifemakersworld D-2 and the likes rule. And if I want something similar... I got ATS-34, or D2, or 52100...

It would be a great steel... but it isn't much used, and no-one really "tuned" the HT-ing of it for use in knives. Indeed, it is a promising steel, prolly along the likes of VG-10, but pushed aside by the competition, like CPM, hitachi and the general knifeworld-trends.


greetz and take care, Bart.
 
I have never seen it offered by knifemakers supply housed in North America which probably contributes to it's anonymity. Most of the interest in materials is generated by what is being done in the custom market then the factory folks jump on board.

I once heard that a factory type called custom knifemakers the largest and most inexpensive R&D resource that any factory couldn't afford to hire. This is based on the large numbers of custom makers using exotic materials like Stellite, Talonite, and Liquidmetal before it is commercially available in some cases while coming up with designs that are rapidly copied by factories at no cost to the factories in most cases.
 
I'm surprised no one has mentioned this yet but PJ Thomes (MS) uses it quite frequently on his lower end pieces.

The few blades I have had were not used much so I cannot comment on its qualities (or lack thereof) but PJ's a nice guy and could probably answer some questions if no one here knows.

I have heard that it was the first steel made specifically for knives, namely scalpel's.
 
CPirtle, P.J. Tomes uses 12C27, not 19C27. I think that if P.J. were to use 19C27, be would probably end charging extra like he does 420V (CPM S60V?)because I would imagine that 19C27 would be harder to grind just like ATS-34 is harder to grind than 440A, for example. BTW, the knives that P.J. uses 12C27 on are not that cheap. I've seen Tomes 12C27 folders that are nearly $1,000.
 
I should have re-read the post because 12c27 is what regestered in my mind, not 19c27.

What I meant about price was that his low end folders ($225 - $350 range) are all 12c27 for the most part, for PJ that's cheap ;)
 
In a recent telephone conversation with Mike Stewart of BRKT he hinted he might do a knife in 19c27 but the problem is it is available only in large amounts as a rolled sheet steel which then has to be un-rolled (straitened/flattened). (I am not sure I am using the correct terms here.) Anyway the hint is the difficulty of getting it. There are several good steels that are just hard to get or impossible or availability too un-reliable (i.e. BG42). Some are quite expensive (CPM154) for what advantage you get. This is from memory and I may have it wrong.
Ron Athay
 
19C27 is mostly used in kitchen knives. Fujitora/Tojiro, Kumadori, and Suisin all use it. Lone Wolf Knives uses it in most of their Paul knives.

MBS-26, VG-1, and Gin-3 (ginsanko) are practically the same steel, too. Spyderco used to use MBS-26 in their folding fillet knife and kitchen knives and Cold Steel uses VG-1 in their folders. Masahiro uses MBS-26 in their kitchen knives and Ikkanshi Tadafusa and Suisin use Gin-3 like it's the holy handgrenade of stainless.
 
I should also add that 19C27 is one of those steels that's often hardened in the popular 60-62 range of hardness and is easily stropped from sort-of dull to scary sharp and that's with $60 Tojiro chef knives and $275 Suisin chef knives.
 
presz said:
I wonder why Kershaw hasn't tried using it? They seam to have a good relationship with Sandvik. It might be nice upgrade to the 13c26 that they already use as base steel on most of their knives. How does to compare in cost to 13c26?
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We do indeed have a very close relationship with Sandvik, and have toyed with the idea of using 19C27 in a project or two. I'm not sure it has the "buzz" as other like steels, but we have tested 19C27 and like it.

We can't use it as a primary steel for volume, as it just can't be fine blanked. Maybe someday, but I don't see any projects in the near future.
 
Daniel Koster said:
Both 13C26 and 19C27 are available from Admiral Steel in bars. ;)

How do I know? I have some enroute as we speak. :p
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I think I can speak for everyone on this thread when I say that we'd love to hear what you think of the 19C27, from any grinding and finishing experiences, to any other feelings and opinions on it you develop.

Please keep up posted. ;-)
 
Perhaps it can be heat treated for smaller carbides, but....why?
12c27 is formulated for knives, sounds like a much better choice.

"Sandvik 19C27 is Sandviks most wear resistant grade and it’s developed for abrasive applications. Sandvik 19C27 is the odd grade in the Sandvik knife steel palette because it’s a coarse carbide grade, unlike Sandvik 7C27Mo2, Sandvik 12C27M, Sandvik 12C27 and Sandvik 13C26.

The coarse carbide grades excel at wear resistance but they don’t allow keen edge angles and have limited edge stability, due to the sacrifice of toughness related to the coarse microstructure.

Sandvik 19C27 is developed for industrial blades for cutting cardboard and tough fiber materials. The world class wear resistance is the main reason why this grade should be selected. Sandvik 19C27 is limited in corrosion resistance and we recommend surface coating on Sandvik 19C27 for knife applications in order to avoid corrsion issues.

With a recommended hardness range of 55-63 HRC, excellent wear resistance and a coarse carbide structure Sandvik 19C27 is suitable for industrial blades for cutting tough or/and abrasive materials."
 
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