Why not much use/talk of Sandvik 19C27?

elementfe said:
Perhaps it can be heat treated for smaller carbides, but....why?
12c27 is formulated for knives, sounds like a much better choice.

"Sandvik 19C27 is Sandviks most wear resistant grade and it’s developed for abrasive applications. Sandvik 19C27 is the odd grade in the Sandvik knife steel palette because it’s a coarse carbide grade, unlike Sandvik 7C27Mo2, Sandvik 12C27M, Sandvik 12C27 and Sandvik 13C26.

The coarse carbide grades excel at wear resistance but they don’t allow keen edge angles and have limited edge stability, due to the sacrifice of toughness related to the coarse microstructure.

Sandvik 19C27 is developed for industrial blades for cutting cardboard and tough fiber materials. The world class wear resistance is the main reason why this grade should be selected. Sandvik 19C27 is limited in corrosion resistance and we recommend surface coating on Sandvik 19C27 for knife applications in order to avoid corrsion issues.

With a recommended hardness range of 55-63 HRC, excellent wear resistance and a coarse carbide structure Sandvik 19C27 is suitable for industrial blades for cutting tough or/and abrasive materials."
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You do realize this thread is three years old. :eek:




Big Mike
 
Yes, and I think it's one of the very few threads to even mention this steel. Which is really a shame, because it's an excellent steel. As you can see from Sandvik's information it is formulated for extreme edge holding, which seems to interest a lot of people. Search the kitchen forum on Knife forums for more info about this steel. It is not easy to make stamped blades from, therefore not suitable for mass production. However for custom knives this is not a consideration.

Sandvik recommends their other grades with finer carbides for general use knives and razors. However the choice of steel depends on the edge geometry of the finished knife as well as how you plan to maintain/sharpen it. For some applications where a larger carbide steel is acceptable, 19C27 should be excellent. It may not be as readily available as other steels, but I think Sandvik has been working to make their products more widely available in this country.

Feedback from people who have used 12C27 have said it's just OK on edge holding, it's real strengths are edge stability due to the fine carbides (less likely to chip), and its toughness, which is better than most other stainless steels.

For long edge holding in use, there has been plenty of positive feedback from forum users for D2 and other steels which have large carbides. 19C27 seems to fit many of the qualities that a lot of knifemakers and knife users seem to like.

I would like to see a lot more knives in this steel. Next Spyderco Mule??????
 
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Just to bump again, does anyone have any opinions about the Canal Street fixed blade drop point hunter (D'Holder) in 19C27 that are strong enough to cause a post?
 
I'll continue the necro thread. I bought a Minamoto Hamon Gyuto in 19c27 and have found it to be a great knife. Full disclosure, I'm comparing it to my set of Old Hickory knives in 1090, Wusthof knives in X50CrMo14, a vintage carbon K-Sabatier and an Opinel paring knife in 12c27. I think a lot of the benefits I'm getting are from how thin the blade is compared to the other knives, but the Opinel is similar in thickness and doesn't retain an edge as well. The 19c27 is easy for me to sharpen and stays sharp longer than the other knives I use in the kitchen. So far I love it and I'll probably buy more kitchen knives made from it or a similar class of steel. I think VG-1, Carpenter's BD-1, and spyderco MBS 26 are all similar.
 
Recently purchased an Atelier Perceval for my customs collection - steel performes Ok but I'd still prefer the typical "super steels" like M390 and S35VN. I wonder why this french producer is stuck to 19c27, when theres good alternatives. After all they sell 300 USD + knives...
 
PhoulPlae said:
I have been wondering about this steel for quite a while now, but a search only came up with several threads, all with brief but positive notes on this steel.

Sandvik 12C27 has already established itself as a good, cheap steel that is incredibly pure, takes an awesome edge, resists rust like 440A, yet holds an edge like 440B or better. It has a good reputation and was supposedly designed specifically for cutlery/razor blades. The composition is not one that would impress at first glance, seemingly similar to 425M, as stated in Joe Talmadge's famous Steel FAQ, but this steel really performs (Frosts knives, etc.).

So why not much talk or experimenting with Sandvik 19C27? If it is anything like its brother 12C27, except designed to be competitive with ATS-34 and the like, I would expect it to take a killer edge, and have at least equivalent corrosion resistance or better and hold a good edge at least as well as ATS-34, or 154CM. Some have compared this to VG-10, but it seems more pure than VG-10.

If the price is not high, and 12C27 certainly isn't, this could be an awesome high end steel that doesn't cost a fortune. I would like to see some more people who have or have access to a knife made of 19C27 test and compare this steel to some of the other high end steels and see how it stacks up.

What do you think about Sandvik 19C27?
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Well I actually own a custom hunting knife done by Jim Stewart of Bark River Knives and I've had this knife for many years and it has processed many many whitetail deer... From my experience this steel is formulated to be extremely wear resistant with coarse carbide structure and they say that it won't take a keen edge but mine sure does lol wow does it ever! Also it almost seems to never dull in use because the course carbides tend to leave micro serrations in use and I am fairly certain this is by design because it was originally formulated to cut abrasive materials such as cardboard but wow does it excel at cutting flesh of an animal and hide it seems nothing can damage the edge enough to make it stop performing in the field and it surprisingly strops back nicely on black bark river compound and puts a nasty sticky hair popping edge right back! So yes I have loved using this steel and I kinda want to compare it to 10v class steels in use but it is not a tough steel at all so be smart about how you use it is all....
 
PhoulPlae said:
I have been wondering about this steel for quite a while now, but a search only came up with several threads, all with brief but positive notes on this steel.

Sandvik 12C27 has already established itself as a good, cheap steel that is incredibly pure, takes an awesome edge, resists rust like 440A, yet holds an edge like 440B or better. It has a good reputation and was supposedly designed specifically for cutlery/razor blades. The composition is not one that would impress at first glance, seemingly similar to 425M, as stated in Joe Talmadge's famous Steel FAQ, but this steel really performs (Frosts knives, etc.).

So why not much talk or experimenting with Sandvik 19C27? If it is anything like its brother 12C27, except designed to be competitive with ATS-34 and the like, I would expect it to take a killer edge, and have at least equivalent corrosion resistance or better and hold a good edge at least as well as ATS-34, or 154CM. Some have compared this to VG-10, but it seems more pure than VG-10.

If the price is not high, and 12C27 certainly isn't, this could be an awesome high end steel that doesn't cost a fortune. I would like to see some more people who have or have access to a knife made of 19C27 test and compare this steel to some of the other high end steels and see how it stacks up.

What do you think about Sandvik 19C27?
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KEVIN A AUMAN said:
Well I actually own a custom hunting knife done by Jim Stewart of Bark River Knives and I've had this knife for many years and it has processed many many whitetail deer... From my experience this steel is formulated to be extremely wear resistant with coarse carbide structure and they say that it won't take a keen edge but mine sure does lol wow does it ever! Also it almost seems to never dull in use because the course carbides tend to leave micro serrations in use and I am fairly certain this is by design because it was originally formulated to cut abrasive materials such as cardboard but wow does it excel at cutting flesh of an animal and hide it seems nothing can damage the edge enough to make it stop performing in the field and it surprisingly strops back nicely on black bark river compound and puts a nasty sticky hair popping edge right back! So yes I have loved using this steel and I kinda want to compare it to 10v class steels in use but it is not a tough steel at all so be smart about how you use it is all....
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I wish I knew how to post a photo on here lol, somewhat new to the forum thing but I'm 41yrs old and have been messing with knives and carrying one daily since I was 8 lol (yes my father may have dulled the edge on my Pakistani buck 110 mini style lockback but I sure thought I was the coolest kid on the block for having parents trust me to carry a knife at 7 or 8yrs old)
 
KEVIN A AUMAN said:
I wish I knew how to post a photo on here lol, somewhat new to the forum thing but I'm 41yrs old and have been messing with knives and carrying one daily since I was 8 lol (yes my father may have dulled the edge on my Pakistani buck 110 mini style lockback but I sure thought I was the coolest kid on the block for having parents trust me to carry a knife at 7 or 8yrs old)
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Welcome! I was gonna make a snarky comment about necroing a long dead thread, but I haven't actually heard much of anything about 19c27, so it seems like an appropriate bump!

If you go to the Tech Support subforum there are some good guides to using image hosting sites to post pictures here. Here's a link to one thread about that.
 
Here's an excerpt from a review I posted a while back on my Manly Wasp in 12C27: The late Butch Winter (RIP 2004), who penned “The Steel Bin” column in Tactical Knives (RIP 2014) thought highly of 12C27. I saved his column, "12C27: A Steel That Gets No Respect" from a couple of decades ago. It is a fine-grained steel that, "properly heat-treated, is a steel to be reckoned with", Winter concluded. Sandvik says on its website, “12C27 is Sandvik's most well-rounded knife steel with excellent edge performance allowing razor sharpness, high hardness, exceptional toughness and good corrosion resistance. Continuous improvement over a period of 45 years has evolved it into the high performing steel grade it is today. The composition is tighter, the purity level is much higher and the fine carbide microstructure of today is far from how Sandvik 12C27 knife steel of the sixties looked. With a hardness range of 54-61 HRC, high toughness, scary sharpness and good corrosion resistance, Sandvik 12C27 is the recommended grade for hunting knives, pocket knives, camping knives, high-end chef's knives and tactical knives.” It's still good stuff.
 
I think that it not being a PM wonder steel it just hasn't gotten much attention, and as the PM wonder steels get better and better, even the better ingot steels fall by the wayside. Until Kershaw started using it, the Sandvik steels were relatively unknown here in the States.

Seems like steels that aren't mainstream production or "sprint" run in popular models fade to the background, if they ever even make it to the foreground.
 
george tichbourne said:
I have never seen it offered by knifemakers supply housed in North America which probably contributes to it's anonymity. Most of the interest in materials is generated by what is being done in the custom market then the factory folks jump on board.

I once heard that a factory type called custom knifemakers the largest and most inexpensive R&D resource that any factory couldn't afford to hire. This is based on the large numbers of custom makers using exotic materials like Stellite, Talonite, and Liquidmetal before it is commercially available in some cases while coming up with designs that are rapidly copied by factories at no cost to the factories in most cases.
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Fantoni Dweller had this steel in their knives. I am an old knife hand and thought it one of the best knife steels I had ever used and also wondered why I saw no other application.
 
All Sandvik steels are awesome,excellent choice for any type of knife....in my book way better than "supersteels",especially with custom ht.
 
the sandvik steels are very good due to their cleanliness and tighter tolerances... this results in tougher stronger steel overall

the actual composition isn't very special, 19c27 = 9cr13 pretty much, without any vanadium or moly (hence, drop the mov part) (( 12c27 ~ 6cr13, and 13c26 ~ 7cr13 ))

technically, if you could get a clean high quality 8cr13mov you will see better results (small amounts of vanadium refine grain size, great for toughness)
the extra carbon in 19c27 gives it superior edge retention over the 12c27 & 13c26 variants but also gives up some toughness to get it

all it really has going for it is the low cost & cleanliness of the steel


I don't expect we'll see it used except in some specialty euro shops... 12c27 & 13c26 really give more practical applications, being tougher & easier to grind
 
dirc said:
the sandvik steels are very good due to their cleanliness and tighter tolerances... this results in tougher stronger steel overall

the actual composition isn't very special, 19c27 = 9cr13 pretty much, without any vanadium or moly (hence, drop the mov part) (( 12c27 ~ 6cr13, and 13c26 ~ 7cr13 ))

technically, if you could get a clean high quality 8cr13mov you will see better results ...
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This is a good point. This seems to be a factor in AUS-8 usually being better than 8Cr13Mov, or K110 being better than Chinese D2.

Yes, heat treatment matters a lot but having clean and consistent starting ingredients seems to matter too.
 
Before I saw the original date of this post, I thought the OP was high for thinking "resists rust like 440A, yet holds an edge like 440B or better".
Then I realized this was 20 years ago, when there were a little more of misinformation than today.
 
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