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Why Not Update the Sebenza?
- Thread starter J85909266
- Start date
IMO the Zaan is the "simpler" knife. It's got fewer discrete parts and less to unscrew. I suppose you could overtightened the pivot but really is that a huge concern for people? Other then the Sebenza all my folders can be overtightened but it's really never been a problem.
You tighten it and open it. If it's too hard to open you loosen it, if there's blade play (which with the Zaan is fairly hard to happen) you tighten it. Seriously what's the concern? It's a knife if you can't properly tighten it you probably shouldn't be using it. :^)
I really like the Zaan, if I HAD to pick between the two, I'd choose it. I just appreciate flicking it open at just the right speed and having it stop with a solid but quiet thud as the rubber washers contact the titanium. Very addicting and I'm probably not explaining it properly.
You tighten it and open it. If it's too hard to open you loosen it, if there's blade play (which with the Zaan is fairly hard to happen) you tighten it. Seriously what's the concern? It's a knife if you can't properly tighten it you probably shouldn't be using it. :^)
I really like the Zaan, if I HAD to pick between the two, I'd choose it. I just appreciate flicking it open at just the right speed and having it stop with a solid but quiet thud as the rubber washers contact the titanium. Very addicting and I'm probably not explaining it properly.
- Joined
- May 25, 2005
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- 2,362
I think you pretty much nailed it. If I didn't have either, and I could only pick one I'd go for the large Sebenza. It's just plain foolproof. The Umnum is a superb knife, and I urge people to check them out. I don't see myself ever getting rid of mine, just like I'd never get rid of my sebs.
The Sebenza is just more "tinkerer" friendly. There isn't anything that you can do wrong to it, besides maybe strip a screw if you're not paying attention. On the Umnum, you'd still need to get a special tool to disassemble or even just to adjust the pivot tightness on the Umnum.
The Sebenza really should've been a Ronco product. "Just set it, and forget it!"
-Dan
Edited to add, I do agree with JJPaul; If you can't properly adjust your knife, you probobly shouldn't have it. There's nothing in the Umnum that is a groundbreaking feature. It's assembled like thousands of other knives out there, the only difference being the perferrated washers.
And just to follow up to myself. 
There are some knives that are difficult to get the right setting on the pivot screw (benchmade 94X, Alias II I'm looking at you). This normally happens either because of small washers or bad tolerances. The Zaan has neither of these issues and the sweet spot on this is positively huge. So yeah pivot tension can be an issue on some folders, its not on this one.
There are some knives that are difficult to get the right setting on the pivot screw (benchmade 94X, Alias II I'm looking at you). This normally happens either because of small washers or bad tolerances. The Zaan has neither of these issues and the sweet spot on this is positively huge. So yeah pivot tension can be an issue on some folders, its not on this one.
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- Jun 6, 2005
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- 3,531
You must have missed the part in parenthesis. None of those things are improvements to me. They may be important for specific preferences, but not in overall performance improvement.
The holes in the washers sound like a general improvement that could and should be applied to all CRK folders. Who doesn't want less friction and better oil retention in their pivot area?
This thread is not about knife versus knife, it's about why such an obvious improvement is not being applied to the Sebenza as well?
Also, the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" argument is pointless and unproductive. Anything can be improved on.
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- Jul 17, 2006
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Oops, should have read it better, to me a thicker blade, larger pivot and dual stops equal stronger to me, which enhances performance. But that's just me.
Ooops again, still didn't answer the original questions, maybe the smaller swept area of the Umnum including the holes which reduce friction by reducing surface area, reducing drag or I could just try cleaning these things once in awhile, I'll just say "I don't know"
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- Mar 19, 2002
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- 7,265
Performance will probably always be subject to user interpretation. Neither of these knives is a revolutionary jump in knife technology they are merely what we prefer as enthusiasts.
This is merely speculation on my part, but I believe the reason the Sebenza does not have the updated washers is because it doesn't make sense financially. To expand on this- You have THOUSANDS of high end folders on the market. Your reputation is based on the premise of quality and service. You update the product with the latest and greatest design improvement. What does this do for the THOUSANDS of owners that are out there already, not to mention inventory across the distributors. Are you going to offer this upgrade for free? Probably not...That is like admitting there was a significant problem with the original design in the first place not to mention the $$ involved. Are you going to charge for the upgrade or even offer it? It's probably prudent not to offer it at all so that you don't risk alienating your user base.
BTW- While I do think the design is an upgrade of sorts- I don't believe it is really that significant and would not give it a second thought, they are both great users!
Of course, I do have to say once again that this is my own perspective.
Bill
Sorry bhyde but I disagree. The Sebenza was a revolutionary jump. CRK was the 1st intregal lock-(I've heard it said that Michael Walker came up with one at the same time but CRK made it availale to the consumer.) There are so many intregal locks on the market today people are used to them. In 1990 or 1991 the simplicity of the design was revolutionary. When I got my 1st Sebenza in the early 90's I marveled at the design. I thought why did'nt anyone think of this.
There have been many updates on the Sebenza. The handles were kind of rough around the edges when i 1st came out. So CRK rounded the edges of the handles. The blade steel was changed 3 times. From ATS-34 to BG-42 to S-30. The blade also went from a satin like finish to the stonewash finish. People comlained they wanted a clip. That was added and later on the clip was changed. There are probably many other changes that were made that I can't think of or do'nt know about. I'm also sure the Sebenza you will see in 10 yrs. from now will have changes from the one you see now.
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- May 7, 2005
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Well said ROBB! :thumbup::thumbup:
Oops, should have read it better, to me a thicker blade, larger pivot and dual stops equal stronger to me, which enhances performance. But that's just me.
Ooops again, still didn't answer the original questions, maybe the smaller swept area of the Umnum including the holes which reduce friction by reducing surface area, reducing drag or I could just try cleaning these things once in awhile, I'll just say "I don't know"
Are the bushing diameters so different that they can not be used on the sebbie's? in the pic they appear to be the same size.
The Sebenza appeared to be larger in diameter and thickness though. I will check for sure.- Joined
- Nov 6, 2008
- Messages
- 160
Good thread.
You must have missed the part in parenthesis. None of those things are improvements to me. They may be important for specific preferences, but not in overall performance improvement.
Many of the features unique to the Umnumzaan are more for me (CRK employee) than for you (customer). For instance:
Double T-lugs and swedge are standard and either integrated in the handle or designed to be easy to produce; no more special order headaches for me.
The heattreat on the locks on our other folders is a pain to produce and has to be protected through subsequent processes; the detent ball on the umnumzaan solved that.
This feature is also for you guys since we're hoping that ball will fail less often than the heatreat on the locks.
There is no pivot bushing that needs to be machined, measured, sorted, matched and adjusted.
This thread is not about knife versus knife, it's about why such an obvious improvement is not being applied to the Sebenza as well?
The Reeves are pretty conservative. Chris probably won't mess up proven designs with experimental ideas until he's had a chance to see them in action in the umnumzaan.
The fact that the umnumzaan is a heavier knife will help that evaluation. If these new features can stand up to a heavy knife they'll do great in a small seb.
Also, the "if it ain't broke don't fix it" argument is pointless and unproductive. Anything can be improved on.
You apparently belong to the same faith that Chris does. He tries to improve everything he sees . . . including me.
If God is in the details then Chris Reeve is his prophet