Why s90v and all these other high carbide steels suck for knives

[jill jackson]

S90V is easy to sharpen. I bought a Spyderco with it and it was used, not sharp when I received it. I could bare believe how easy it became sharp on ceramic rods.

 

[Mo2]

S90V is easy to sharpen. I bought a Spyderco with it and it was used, not sharp when I received it. I could bare believe how easy it became sharp on ceramic rods.

I find it extremely easy to sharpen/touch up on ceramic stones. I do this often when they get chipping in my spyderco and benchmade s90v.

 

[Sonnydaze]

You're thinking of s35vn.

Well, not really. S30V has been the all-out star of Spyderco for years, and only recently has S35VN made an entrance. Check out the ParaMilitary 2, Military, and other models sometime, and see how many folders have been made and sold in S30V, compared to S35VN... Probably 50 to 1.

 

[newdebate]

Well, not really. S30V has been the all-out star of Spyderco for years, and only recently has S35VN made an entrance. Check out the ParaMilitary 2, Military, and other models sometime, and see how many folders have been made and sold in S30V, compared to S35VN... Probably 50 to 1.

Yeah, ok.

 

[Petunia D. Feeble]

My only problem with the high carbide, ultra abrasive resistant steels is they're expensive. There's a point of diminishing return that I think you hit somewhere around s35vn on the price scale.

I like m4 as much as the next guy, but if the same knife in d2 or 154cm is $60 cheaper I'm going to buy it instead.

 

[Fanglekai]

Cliff ommits saying what he uses to sharpen the main bevel with. In the article mentioned above he only states about microbevel. From earlier articles he sharpens s30v like so.

• Suehiro 'Chemical' 320 grit
• Naniwa Superstone 400 grit -or- King 1000 grit
• Naniwa Aotoshi 2000 grit

Then 1000 diamond Wicked Edge micro.
Its from this forum i learned you gotta use diamonds to abraide all of the vanadium rich steels properly and the rest of the CPM evenly distributed hard carbides.
So this kind of neglect on his behalf opens other possibilities...

You might tell Phil Wilson to stop using silicon carbide to sharpen high vanadium steels and switch to diamonds.

 

[Mo2]

I dunno what this guys saying, but he is testing s90v in the video. puts it through some stress. if he's saying something interesting about s90v that would be great to know what. otherwise he talks too much. i think its Russian? i assume he tests s90v at 60 and 62hrc?

 

[Sergeua]

You might tell Phil Wilson to stop using silicon carbide to sharpen high vanadium steels and switch to diamonds.

The numbers on the right is knoop hardness.
Silicon Carbide 2480
Aluminum Boride 2500
Vanadium Carbide 2660
Boron Carbide 2750
Titanium Diboride 4400
Diamond 7000

I don't know i just use the right tool for the job. Maybe you ask him if you are so close. Does he have time to do alot of free hand sharpening?

 

[Wowbagger]

Nah . . . Cliff Stamp and his ideas about shallow sharpening bevels . . . all that sucks.
Oh wait.
. . .
I'm lying again.
Funny vanadium carbides aside for a moment; when I started listening to his enthusiasm for edge geometry, shallow edge geometry and how it could get "lesser" steels (but still quality steel properly hardened) up to speed to cut like the higher end steels , for me, it was like coming home.

For a while there I thought I was crazy because I thought I had taken a Swiss Army Knife and actually got it to cut right and hold an edge after thinking for years and years that it was crap steel because it wouldn't hold an edge for a day with the factory grind. I shallowed the peas out of it and it suddenly became a magic long lasting saber. That just didn't make sense to me but I thought it was working that way so I must be crazy (right ?). Nope my main man Cliff says he's crazy that way too.

Now the below is kind of some where in between because he isn't a fan of vanadium carbides but here you go :

For me yesterday was a heavy knife day at work. Of course I was carrying the newly reprofiled little purple monster (Para 2 S110V reprofiled as shallow as I could get it and about 8 thou behind the edge).
Pallet straps; the yellow ones that feel like they may have some sort of abrasive fiber in them. I cut quite a few of these. Some of them I came at full edge across full width of the strap; I figured this was a bad idea but just went for it. (seemed like it might be particularly abrasive to the edge is what I am getting at).
Trimming hard rubber.
Cut up rubber coated cloth.
Cut up corrugated cardboard boxes.
Food and easy stuff.

time will tell whether the hazel nuts will fall out or not.

There are zero chips or rough spots (carbide fall out etc.) zero rolls or flat spots.
Granted I am not attempting to cut bamboo chop sticks or pencils in half.

And there was a surprising bonus and part of the reason I reprofiled this little purple monster to da max :
Still easily shave sharp, both directions, shave sharp for the entire length of the edge. . . oh yes . . . very pleasingly shave sharp ! ! !

OhYahBaby

PS: there could be some hope for and place in the knife world yet for this funny Vanadium carbide stuff.
A year ago I would never have believed I would ever write that sentence.

 

[John Stubley]

I dunno what this guys saying, but he is testing s90v in the video. puts it through some stress. if he's saying something interesting about s90v that would be great to know what. otherwise he talks too much. i think its Russian? i assume he tests s90v at 60 and 62hrc?

Youtube video now have a language translate feature, just turn it on and select what language you want it to translate into, the result can be quite hilarious.

John.

 

[Wowbagger]

I don't know i just use the right tool for the job.

Yes that was what I was thinking when I saw Jill Jackson's use of the ceramic rod on S90V.
I don't doubt that the edge got sharp; very sharp.
I have used Shapton Glass stones to mirror polish S110V to hair whittling.
and
I absolutely LOVE the Spyderco Ultra Fine rod for my other high hardness alloy steels such as M390 ad M4
HOW EVER
(and that is a big old however)
I think the ceramic rod is NOT a good tool to produce a sound, long lasting edge on high vanadium alloys. It's just not hard enough. It, and my Shapton Glass ceramic stones on the Edge Pro Apex, were some how burnishing the matrix , not the shape of the individual vanadium carbides, into a false edge that would break down very fast. I thought this was just the "becoming a working edge" phase of the S110V but from my latest results posted above, while using ONLY DIAMOND I have had another think a com'in.

All I can say is try both and test for your selves.
I will next experiment some with Crystolon Silicon Oxide, something I have very little experience with but I foresee myself returning to these old nasty diamond stones in short order.
Dang it they are working wonderfully . . . or I got a particularly good blade/heat treat . . . or something.

A good batch of three legged chickens and particularly favorable alignment of the planets . . . THAT must be it.

 

[Wowbagger]

Youtube video now have a language translate feature, just turn it on and select what language you want it to translate into, the result can be quite hilarious.

John.

That's no doubt how we sound to them. With maybe a little vocal fry thrown in.
Is he wearing dinosaur pajamas under the camy?

PS: that is some monster rope he is cutting ! ! !
What is that stuff like 1-1/8 inch (28mm) . . . (30mm) ? ? ?

 

[John Stubley]

That's no doubt how we sound to them. With maybe a little vocal fry thrown in.
Is he wearing dinosaur pajamas under the camy?

This one is really bad, it had me in stitches it sound like he`s taking about the Russian revolution or something, really funny, when you use the youtube auto translator from Russian to English.

Sorry OP, You can delete all of my posts if you like.

"

"

John.

 

[Wowbagger]

I like m4 as much as the next guy, but if the same knife in d2 or 154cm is $60 cheaper I'm going to buy it instead.

I'm the opposite.
M4 every time
I'll pay more.

PS: and some times it is only $25 more if that.

 

[Mo2]

I think the ceramic rod is NOT a good tool to produce a sound, long lasting edge on high vanadium alloys. It's just not hard enough.

im incline to say you may be correct. its super easy to use them to sharpen the edges of s90v, but... its moving metal rather than cutting it maybe? which is causing chipping more than it would with diamonds or cbn. or so im guessing here. i did get chipping when using diamonds on my s90v also.

 

[LuckyC]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. NOW you're telling me he lives and test knives at the North Pole? That, sir I refuse to believe.

Yes, that is exactly what I meant to say.

 

[Wowbagger]

Yes, that is exactly what I meant to say.

Hey . . . don't knock The North Pole !
They've got some great tools up there; like I have seen no where else.
And the people are very friendly ! Short but very friendly.
Hot cocoa like you wouldn't believe . . .

Buuuuuut . . . I can't stay there long . . . smells too much of reindeer crap for me. What can I say; I'm a city boy.

 

[stabman]

I've decided I don't care if it cuts the carbides, moves them around, or gives them a hug full of love, as long as the blade gets sharp.

 

[Lapedog]

Seems to me like once the edge geometry is properly set I can usually easily touch up most steels freehand with my sharpmaker fine rods.

Grinding a proper edge with the sharpmaker is a nightmare. However once the edge is ground correctly it is an awesome tool for maintaining that edge.

 

[Sergeua]

you guys might like this video