Why shave with your folder?

H

holst035

Joined
Feb 22, 2005
Messages
89
A shaving sharp knife in your pocket, is that really necessary? For what purpose can I possibly need such a sharp knife?

I'm asking this because I'm trying to decide to sharp my WH Titan with a 20 degree angle or a 15 degree angle on my sharpmaker. Scary sharp or longer remaining sharpness.
 
I think that shaving sharp is a good goal. A stopping point. As in "My knife can shave now. It's time to put the sharpener away." I don't think that a knife has to be shaving sharp to be useful, but it sure doesn't hurt.
 
If you own a sharpener and can touch it up whenever ya want... why not shaving? 15 degree?? I dont know about that..
 
The 15-degree setting on the Sharpmaker is not delicate. I routinely sharpen my EDC to under 10 degrees. The lower the angle that you sharpen your knife to the longer it will stay sharp. This is because as the edge wears away you are left with thinner (sharper) material if the edge is honed thin (at a lower angle). If you use your knife to cut wire or cable you might want a more obtuse angle, but until you are cutting relatively hard material you just don't need to go higher than 10 degrees. 15 degrees is adequate for cutting metal. The only reason to go to 20 degrees is that you are too impatient to take the time to remove the material necessary to go to 15 or 20 degrees. The guys who make sharpeners expect you to be that impatient.
 
My sharpmaker came with an instruction book and dvd with Sal advising to go with 40 degree for general purpose and once in a while 30 degree for back bevel.. but he says that 30 degree is a bit much for regular use.. so where do we get to 15 and 10 ??? what sharpmaker do you have?
 
love4steel said:
My sharpmaker came with an instruction book and dvd with Sal advising to go with 40 degree for general purpose and once in a while 30 degree for back bevel.. but he says that 30 degree is a bit much for regular use.. so where do we get to 15 and 10 ??? what sharpmaker do you have?
Click to expand...

15 and 20 degrees per side, which would correspond to 30 and 40 degree positions on the sharpmaker. 10 degrees per side, well you'd do that on a benchstone if you were a pretty good sharpener.
 
When sharpening on 40 degrees I always try to get my knives shaving sharp so I can have a good achievable goal however I do abuse my knives and every once in a while I will sharpen my knife back up to a shaving sharp. I don't care if my knife isnt shaving sharp at all times but having my knife shaving sharp is part of the "cycle" if I can call it that. Also, when camping many times I will shave with an opinel which is at a 30 degree angle, I bring the knife strictly for shaving because with just stroping it I can get the knife shaving sharp.
 
holst035 said:
A shaving sharp knife in your pocket, is that really necessary? For what purpose can I possibly need such a sharp knife?

I'm asking this because I'm trying to decide to sharp my WH Titan with a 20 degree angle or a 15 degree angle on my sharpmaker. Scary sharp or longer remaining sharpness.
Click to expand...
I don't think that any of us actually do shave with our knives (apart from a small patch of armhair to see if it's sharp). More, it's just a measure of sharpness. For me, it's sharp if it shaves armhair or cleanly slices (no tearing) paper. A 40 degree bevel can still shave armhair.

Even the term "shaving sharp" doesn't really imply facial hair. You'd have to have a lot less than a 30 degree edge to shave your face with any effeciency, and without it feeling like you're tearing your face off.
 
Planterz said:
Even the term "shaving sharp" doesn't really imply facial hair. You'd have to have a lot less than a 30 degree edge to shave your face with any effeciency, and without it feeling like you're tearing your face off.
Click to expand...

This is true, and believe me, I've tried. :) I shave with straight razors which have a much thinner edge on them than a knife. If the straight razors aren't just right they pull and don't shave that comfortably. It isn't until you acheive a finely stropped edge on a straight razor that you can comfortably shave, and that's after you properly prep your beard with good shaving soaps, pre-shave gels, oils, etc. :) Oh and lots of hot water.
 
I sharpen all my knives at 30 degrees. 30 degrees will feel sharper than 40 degrees, no question about it. For instance I sent to BM customer service a knife for repair and they resharpened (ground) to 40 degrees. Recently I got tired of how the ATS-34 is not performing so I bought a diamond stone and redid the edge to 15 degrees. My sharpening skill or technique hasn't changed, but it does a lot better in cutting now.

Yes, the edge will be slightly more suspectable to damage, but realistically, for most knives all the thickness behind the edge is not required "to keep the edge strong". How many times do you find a 0.5mm dent and say "gee, I wish I left it at 40 degrees so the dent will only be 0.3mm." Most of the dullness I recieve are from very shallow dents that would not be noticeably smaller if the edge angle were increase.

I actually find the 440A in the Ti-lite to be the most sharpenable steel. I do shave it sometimes.
 
cabron50 said:
I think that shaving sharp is a good goal. A stopping point. As in "My knife can shave now. It's time to put the sharpener away." I don't think that a knife has to be shaving sharp to be useful, but it sure doesn't hurt.
Click to expand...

I try to get all my knives shaving sharp. For me, it's just a point to know 1) I'm doing the job I intended and 2) I know the blade is sharp enough for me for routine tasks. IMHO, shaving sharp proves much more useful than mediocre, snag a couple of hairs in one swipe sharp. Still, If I did not have shaving sharp knives, I could still do those routine tasks. But, as qouted above, it doesn't hurt.
 
A sharp knife is a safe knife. The sharper the blade is, the less force you need to exert to cut material.

The less force you exert to cut with the knife, the more control you have over the blade.

More control on the blade means less chance for errors that result in the need for bandaids, stitches, trips to the ER, etc.
 
I go ultra-thin. I measured my natural sharpening angle once, and it comes out at 12 degrees per side. I'm retraining my wrist to go a mite narrower, I'd like 10 or 8. Thin cuts better. :)
 
m_calingo said:
A sharp knife is a safe knife. The sharper the blade is, the less force you need to exert to cut material.

The less force you exert to cut with the knife, the more control you have over the blade.

More control on the blade means less chance for errors that result in the need for bandaids, stitches, trips to the ER, etc.
Click to expand...

You must be a mind reader because that is almost exactly what I was going to say.

Oh, and shaving sharp is just a start on some of my knives. A strop loaded with chromium oxide will take a shaving sharp blade to an even higher level of sharpness that one forumite described as sharp enough to shave a sleeping mouse without waking it up.

I do not keep all of my knives that sharp, but on some "shaving sharp" is relatively dull and in need of a touch up.
 
Used my new sharpmaker tonight on my WH Titan with zdp-189. I practised earlier this week with some other knives. The old ones took fast a very very sharp edge. The 154 CM was a bit harder, but the zdp-189 is really hard work. I used the 40 degree slots, and finally got to a razor edge. But much, much more then the 20 strokes a side Sal Gesser Talks about. I guess it's the first time and it will stay long sharp like this!
 
You can attain shaving sharp with angles greater than 40 degrees. However, shaving sharp doesn't always mean good cutting performance. I had a knife that would shave with an estimated 50 degree angle. However, it would hardly pass through paper without tearing. The greater angle provided a larger front the blade had to force the through the material it is cutting. Sharpen the knife for it's intended purpose. Most small folders can be shaving sharp because they don't see as much heavy abrasive cutting. A larger working folder should be sharpened to the point where it will pass cleanly through paper, but short of shaving. I found the edge lasts a little longer that way and reduces nicks in the edge.
 
Believe it or not a sharp knife is a safer knife to use. For example: Imagine cutting on a block of hard wood. Something like walnut maybe or even a block of some cottonwood or some other softer wood. Slicing off a shaving with a sharp knife is easy deliberate and controlled. You can move the blade through the cut and flick off the shaving with precision by either slicing or push cutting to make the cut. It goes in and slides right through it with out having to be pushed with a tremendous amount of force behind it.

A dull knife on the other hand is just the opposite. To get it to slice through requires much force and you find youself pushing it harder and harder until it finally goes through all in one swoop with a big ripped off chunk of wood instead of a controlled slice. It is with these kind of dull or inappropriate edges that accidents happen. When the blade slips with that much force behind it even a dull one penetrates skin and can make a nasty cut many times requiring a trip to the ER for sutures.

So really for any task the edge and the knife as well as the edge angle should all be appropriate for what you are doing but some angles are a 'jack of all trades' type that can do some of everything. Find what works for what you do the most and try to adjust the angle to the specific blade thickness and grind geometry of the blade in hand and it should be fine so long as it works well for what you do. I do a lot of whittling so most of my edges are highly polished for push cuts and precision slices.

Some one else that opens boxes a lot or cuts rope may want a more aggressive courser edge for slicing or a combo edge or even a fully serrated one. Both the highly polished and the course edges can shave but that isn't the thing to shoot for when sharpening so much as reaching a useable edge that does the job at hand and keeps that edge for a while in the process.

Generally the sharper the knife is the more control you can have over it because it will require less force to do the job. Just like it is harder to stop a car going 65 mph vs one going 10 mph it will be harder to control a blade with that much force behind it because it was too dull or had and edge profile that was too thick to do the job you are doing with it.

You can have a really thick edge that shaves hairs but it won't slice worth a darn. It may keep that edge forever and a day because it has a thick wedge or v grind to it that is very strong but to make it slice would require the adjustment in the angle and thinning it out just a bit. Just remember that the thinner it gets the more it loses strength and can be chipped out or dinged up. The thin edge will cut great for a while but dull faster than the thick one so finding a happy medium is what most guys try to find. Again it all depends on the task at hand. Anyway that is a nutshell rant of my take on why to have a shaving sharp knife.

STR
 
ThreadMoving.jpg
 
holst035 said:
Used my new sharpmaker tonight on my WH Titan with zdp-189 ... the zdp-189 is really hard work ... finally got to a razor edge. But much, much more then the 20 strokes a side Sal Gesser Talks about
Click to expand...

That kind of disagrees with what Conable says about the zdp-189 in William Henry blades:

"Conable said … the ZDP core with the 420 stainless exterior makes it extremely easy to sharpen " [emphasis added].
-from Feb 2005 Blade

On the basis of Conable's comment, I bought the William Henry for EDC-- haven't seen the need to sharpen it, so far... (I usually use a Lansky with diamond grit)
Did I make an expensive mistake?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top