Why Survival?

[Wildone39]

I think, in my opinion, there have been many survival shows in the last few years, starting with Les Stroud. What I think has fueled these shows is because of the way the World or our Country is heading. I think a lot of people see doom and gloom in coming times. Economic and other things. I said starting with Les Stroud but really it started with the reality shows like Survivor. I dont know how Im trying to say it, but It seems to me these shows are really popular because people want to know how to handle future disasters. We have all heard about the Mayan Callender and we had 9/11. I think thats why these are so popular. Simple fact, people want to learn how to be prepared for the hard times a head. I may be way off on that. If so, sorry.

 

[Cpl Punishment]

I stopped reading when the bashing started, but here's my take:

A survival situation is a situation where your life is in a heightened condition of danger that has immanent death as a real possibility.

Of course wilderness survival is one part or aspect of survival. However, you're not likely to see an urban survival show simply because many of the things you have to do to survive in an urban environment (talking really keeping yourself from dying now) are illegal if you are not in that situation, and sometimes illegal even if your life is in danger.

You won't see many "highway survival" shows either. They just don't have the budget to jacknife a semi on the highway 40 feet in front of you with rush hour traffic all around. Besides, there's too many factors thta go into that split second decision. Yeah, maybe I'd force the car next to me off the road and we'd both take our chance in the median, rather than impact the trailer. But what if it's a minivan full of kids? Can't really teach too much survival in those situation, often it comes down to you either make it or you don't.

You could have a driving show, teaching essentially the same skills as executive protection drivers learn, but then you'd have to close roads down, have a big car budget, and you'd also be giving free training to the bad guys.

So methinks wilderness survival is what we'll see.

 

[ROCK6]

I wonder what opinions are about these survival shows when it comes to their “powers of persuasion”. I mean, let’s all face it, even sitting at work, when I see a nice photo of a camp site or outdoors picture, I’ll immediately go into wishing I was out there.

Do these shows have any educational benefit? I think to a limited degree, there are a few “golden nuggets” of information, new techniques or interesting knowledge that I’ve gleaned.

Do these shows encourage people to get out? This is a little bit of a two-edged sword. Some may watch these shows and run off outdoors with just a knife, clothes and no skill…simple ignorance. However, this may stir up a child’s desire to get out and do a little camping or stir you butt into motion as you’ve been too busy to get out and know that you need to.

I hate to classify Les Stroud, Man vs. Wild; Man, Woman and Wild; Dual Survivors, etc. as “reality” TV, but they are. I do enjoy them all, however as my daughter will watch some MTV reality show, I’m reminded how serious you should be taking these entertainment programs…and it’s not much!

ROCK6

 

[kgd]

I hate to classify Les Stroud, Man vs. Wild; Man, Woman and Wild; Dual Survivors, etc. as “reality” TV, but they are. I do enjoy them all, however as my daughter will watch some MTV reality show, I’m reminded how serious you should be taking these entertainment programs…and it’s not much!

I tend to disagree somewhat Rock. Outside of M vs W, there are snippets of good information and I believe genuine attempts at demonstrating specific skillsets. Some folks have argued that Les and even Dave and Cody have actually over-dramatized the difficulty of some activities in order to not present a task that requires some moderate skill or training as too simple to the viewing audience. Funny, in another forum, the caste gets chastised unendingly for this and even called frauds or bumbling amateurs. I think it is an earnest attempt to educate on the possibility of failure and to prepare folks on the difficulty of making things work under a stressful situation.

Anyhow, there is definitely added drama in these shows along with dramatic music and superimposed commentators warning of stuff to help hype the situations up. They have to do that. But it isn't they psychological/high school stupidity we see with reality tv like bigbrother/survivor etc. I haven't seen 'The Colony' but I have my doubts on it.

 

[milani74]

...Then the photogenic survivalist will hike, climb, fish, camp, and make it home -- alive, hurray! The producer has had a chance to show scenery, a few animals, product placement gear that you can buy for your very own next walk in the park, -- and you've had a few ads slipped in every twenty minutes or so, also.
It's a catch-all term because everyone using the same term grabs the same demographic. If Outdoor Survival had to compete with Outdoor Fishing and Outdoor Sailing and Wilderness Car-Camping, you would divide up the audience and everyone would go broke.

Good post Esav, and you hit on part of my original thought as I posted this thread. When I go out to camp, hike, fish or hunt, I dont bring my "survival gear". I bring my hiking, fishing, camping etc gear. This is all items that will make me more comfortable and if something goes wrong, better prepares me to cope with the possible dangers associated with that change.
I mean, does anyone really have a pair of "survival" socks? Of course not. We have socks that we take with us for a specific sport though.

..generally refers to a lost in the woods kind of Saying it's a survival show means we all instantly have an idea of what it's about and then we'll probably watch it, basically it's just marketing, but what's wrong with saying survival situation anyway?

Good post Tye. I think the bottom line is that when I think of the outdoors, I do not think of something that needs to be controlled or conquered and I think a lot of these shows are geared toward that goal. I could be wrong, but when I go outside, I plan the best I can to avoid trouble.
If you asked me 10 years ago what a survival situation meant, I'd proably say escaping a burning house, treating a sucking chest wound, performing CPR, or lost behind enemy lines. Not hiking in the woods and being aware of your suroundings or applying bushcraft skills to get you back home.

G'day Milani


It seems to me that as more peole are living in cities and available outdoor time shrinks, nature seems to have taken on more of an adversarial role, something that needs to be taken head on and survived
Kind regards
Mick

Spot on Mick and I agree. People fear what they dont know.

Do these shows encourage people to get out? This is a little bit of a two-edged sword. Some may watch these shows and run off outdoors with just a knife, clothes and no skill…simple ignorance. However, this may stir up a child’s desire to get out and do a little camping or stir you butt into motion as you’ve been too busy to get out and know that you need to.

I hate to classify Les Stroud, Man vs. Wild; Man, Woman and Wild; Dual Survivors, etc. as “reality” TV, but they are. I do enjoy them all, however as my daughter will watch some MTV reality show, I’m reminded how serious you should be taking these entertainment programs…and it’s not much!

ROCK6

I enjoy them all too Rock. These type of shows are some of the few TV programs that I will waste time watching.

 

[ROCK6]

I tend to disagree somewhat Rock. Outside of M vs W, there are snippets of good information and I believe genuine attempts at demonstrating specific skillsets. Some folks have argued that Les and even Dave and Cody have actually over-dramatized the difficulty of some activities in order to not present a task that requires some moderate skill or training as too simple to the viewing audience. Funny, in another forum, the caste gets chastised unendingly for this and even called frauds or bumbling amateurs. I think it is an earnest attempt to educate on the possibility of failure and to prepare folks on the difficulty of making things work under a stressful situation.

Anyhow, there is definitely added drama in these shows along with dramatic music and superimposed commentators warning of stuff to help hype the situations up. They have to do that. But it isn't they psychological/high school stupidity we see with reality tv like bigbrother/survivor etc. I haven't seen 'The Colony' but I have my doubts on it.

I guess my point is that all these "survival" shows have some type of "safety net". Les Stroud is probably the only one that didn't but the amount of camera equipment he carried isn't typical either and he was always pointing out that he received local expert advice before venturing out (if not in his own back of the woods). The "reality" basis is actually more reality than other drama-reality shows which really disgust me.

It's easy to snipe at any of these shows when you're on your comfy couch with a cold beer. Even the stupid stunts that Bear Grylls does take a fair amount of fitness, agility and skill; to dismiss that is ignorant whether you like the show or not. I do agree with you though that some of thse shows seemed a little dumbed down but even experienced outdoorsmen can appreciate some of the small things that are often overlooked.

ROCK6

 

[nemoaz]

No need to turn this into a bash-bear thread.

It's always a good time to bash the Grylli Vanilli.

 

[RYP]

Good thread. I did a series for Discovery in which people were killed, kidnapped, starved, jailed, assassinated, bombed, tortured and of course not a single frame of what I shot was staged, reshot, set up or "fudged".

The show was called "The World's Most Dangerous Places" and is still the best and probably only show of it kind.

I get numerous calls, pitches and requests to one of those survival shows and they seemed confused when I point out that I only do "reality" and not that "reality".

In my humble opinion, it is the tenacity and beauty of local people who survive by overcoming adversity that drove viewer interest in my show. Until TV is ready for that again, I will be writing books, designing knives and working in that very real world.


www.comebackalive.com

 

[kgd]

In my humble opinion, it is the tenacity and beauty of local people who survive by overcoming adversity that drove viewer interest in my show. Until TV is ready for that again, I will be writing books, designing knives and working in that very real world.

Thanks for posting here RYP. I think we can all point to many similar issues discussed in this thread to the profession of journalism as we see it today. Journalism uses many of the same tricks, dramatization, overt editing to over-emphasize things intended to be subtle and the worst bit IMO journalists interjecting their opinions while questioning experts as though they were on equal standing with the expert being interviewed in the technical topic area. Now we even get journalists interviewing other journalist called in as experts because they 'were following up on a story' rather than getting professionals. Entertainment and ratings has a subtle way of bending the truth. But its not even subtle anymore and is getting down right ludicrous.

I think there is a place for a straight-up documentary and there is a place for dramatization/demonstrations. Both provide different perspectives. Personally, I like to see both. Unfortunately, not having cable programming I never caught your show but you've tweaked my interest in it.

 

[RYP]

I suppose one point that should be made is that it wasn't journalism. Other than the John Walker Lindh bit where I was working for CNN, my trips were self funded in my personal quest to update and write my book. But most "survival" training comes from the Craigheads who wrote the book for the Airforce using local bush skills. NOT to actually teach pilots to survive but to give them the confidence to not die by doing stupid things )

Even today in my book Come Back Alive I point out the huge difference between ripped off bush skills vs survival skills I have learned the hard way in over 36 conflict zones and 120 odd countries. I think its important to look at people who actually "survive" vs people who tell others how to survive just as its important to understand the difference between pretending to survive vs actually surviving.

You can buy the DVDs at the site if you want to review a real survival show

And by the way... "Grylli Vanilli" thats some funny shit. )) He is a nice kid just making a buck but I know some meaner and uglier guys I would rather have covering my six.